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	<title>Comments on: Silk Soy Creamer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/</link>
	<description>Finding the finer side of everyday kosher living</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: mama o'matrices</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-7326</link>
		<dc:creator>mama o'matrices</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 03:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-7326</guid>
		<description>Silk recently had a problem with dairy contamination in their soy milk, and my suspicion is that the OU's statement is confirmed: too many companies do not wash up properly after a dairy run, and before a non-dairy one.

But there's more: most soy yogurts are DE/D, because the live cultures are typically grown on dairy proteins. The temperature to encourage growth would be warm, but not very hot. How warm is too warm?

For myself, I note that Silk admits to sharing all but one factory with companies who use dairy. So we are now considering the cleaning habits of not one, but multiple companies. And yet, I find the whole business somewhat arbitrary. Graham crackers, for example, are typically made on shared lines with dairy - and I've seen a number labeled pareve. The list of exceptions and eyebrow raisings go on...no wonder the dairy allergy folks are going a little crazy over here. Thankfully, allergy is not halacha - halacha is far more forgiving.

For myself, I pour soy milk into coffee. So, I treat Silk as if it is milchigs, and go buy my soymilk from Whole Foods. Their house brand, at least, is pareve!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silk recently had a problem with dairy contamination in their soy milk, and my suspicion is that the OU&#8217;s statement is confirmed: too many companies do not wash up properly after a dairy run, and before a non-dairy one.</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s more: most soy yogurts are DE/D, because the live cultures are typically grown on dairy proteins. The temperature to encourage growth would be warm, but not very hot. How warm is too warm?</p>
<p>For myself, I note that Silk admits to sharing all but one factory with companies who use dairy. So we are now considering the cleaning habits of not one, but multiple companies. And yet, I find the whole business somewhat arbitrary. Graham crackers, for example, are typically made on shared lines with dairy - and I&#8217;ve seen a number labeled pareve. The list of exceptions and eyebrow raisings go on&#8230;no wonder the dairy allergy folks are going a little crazy over here. Thankfully, allergy is not halacha - halacha is far more forgiving.</p>
<p>For myself, I pour soy milk into coffee. So, I treat Silk as if it is milchigs, and go buy my soymilk from Whole Foods. Their house brand, at least, is pareve!</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Mendelsohn</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-7320</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Mendelsohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 03:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-7320</guid>
		<description>BS"D

     Before they were certified by the OU, Silk soymilk and yogurt were all Scroll-K DE.

    Purely Decadent, a premium soy-based dessert made by Turtle Mountain (makers of So Delicious), is sometimes certified California-K DE (other varieties are Heart-K parve), as is So Delicious yogurt.

    Organic Valley soymilk is also OU-D and says next to the hechsher that it contains no dairy.  One would have to check with the OU as to whether it is halachically DE or actual dairy.  Whole Foods 365 Organic soymilk is parve, as are several others.

    Be happy -- its the Nine Days, and we all get a break this week from fussing over how long we are going to be fleishig!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BS&#8221;D</p>
<p>     Before they were certified by the OU, Silk soymilk and yogurt were all Scroll-K DE.</p>
<p>    Purely Decadent, a premium soy-based dessert made by Turtle Mountain (makers of So Delicious), is sometimes certified California-K DE (other varieties are Heart-K parve), as is So Delicious yogurt.</p>
<p>    Organic Valley soymilk is also OU-D and says next to the hechsher that it contains no dairy.  One would have to check with the OU as to whether it is halachically DE or actual dairy.  Whole Foods 365 Organic soymilk is parve, as are several others.</p>
<p>    Be happy &#8212; its the Nine Days, and we all get a break this week from fussing over how long we are going to be fleishig!</p>
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		<title>By: DeisCane</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6626</link>
		<dc:creator>DeisCane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6626</guid>
		<description>Here's one place to get it: http://www.glutenfreemall.com/catalog/authentic-foods-arrowroot-glutenfree-flour-p-160.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s one place to get it: <a href="http://www.glutenfreemall.com/catalog/authentic-foods-arrowroot-glutenfree-flour-p-160.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.glutenfreemall.com/catalog/authentic-foods-arrowroot-glutenfree-flour-p-160.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6625</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6625</guid>
		<description>On a tangential note, I saw that the Vegan Ice Cream recipe uses arrowroot for thickening. I can't find any arrowroot with a hechsher at Whole Foods (and none at all at the local supermarkets).
1. Does anyone know if arrowroot require a hechsher?
2. Can another thickening agent (tapioca, corn starch) be used satisfactorily as a substitute?
Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a tangential note, I saw that the Vegan Ice Cream recipe uses arrowroot for thickening. I can&#8217;t find any arrowroot with a hechsher at Whole Foods (and none at all at the local supermarkets).<br />
1. Does anyone know if arrowroot require a hechsher?<br />
2. Can another thickening agent (tapioca, corn starch) be used satisfactorily as a substitute?<br />
Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ari</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6624</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6624</guid>
		<description>Pareve food cooked in dairy pans is Nat Bar Nat (2nd generation dairy taste). Nat bar Nat is too far removed of a dairy taste to be subject to the secondary prohibition against eating dairy after meat, so you can definitely eat the food after a meat meal.

You can also definitely eat the pareve-but-DE food cold on meat dishes (at least as long as the food isn't spicy/sharp, which complicates matters) because flavor isn't transmitted through cold contact.

It gets more interesting if you want to eat it hot on meat dishes. I think some authorities permit it, while others may not. Any flavor transmitted from the food to the plates is Nat bar Nat bar Nat (3rd generation flavor), while any meat/milk flavor in the food itself is 4th generation (dairy item -&#62; dairy pan -&#62; pareve food + meat food -&#62; meat plate -&#62; pareve food, so there are 4 steps between meat and milk). Sephardic poskim, who generally follow the position Nat Bar Nat l'hetera l'chatchila (2nd generation tastes are permissible even preferably), would certainly allow this because they even allow you to eat pareve-but-DE food directly with meat. Ashkenazic poskim generally hold Nat Bar Nat l'hetera b'Deavad (2nd generation tastes are permissible only after-the-fact). Now I think most Ashkenazic poskim allow 3rd and 4th generation flavors, which would mean that you can indeed eat the DE food on meat dishes even hot. See http://rabbi.bendory.com/docs/kashrus/kashrus02.php for a similar conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pareve food cooked in dairy pans is Nat Bar Nat (2nd generation dairy taste). Nat bar Nat is too far removed of a dairy taste to be subject to the secondary prohibition against eating dairy after meat, so you can definitely eat the food after a meat meal.</p>
<p>You can also definitely eat the pareve-but-DE food cold on meat dishes (at least as long as the food isn&#8217;t spicy/sharp, which complicates matters) because flavor isn&#8217;t transmitted through cold contact.</p>
<p>It gets more interesting if you want to eat it hot on meat dishes. I think some authorities permit it, while others may not. Any flavor transmitted from the food to the plates is Nat bar Nat bar Nat (3rd generation flavor), while any meat/milk flavor in the food itself is 4th generation (dairy item -&gt; dairy pan -&gt; pareve food + meat food -&gt; meat plate -&gt; pareve food, so there are 4 steps between meat and milk). Sephardic poskim, who generally follow the position Nat Bar Nat l&#8217;hetera l&#8217;chatchila (2nd generation tastes are permissible even preferably), would certainly allow this because they even allow you to eat pareve-but-DE food directly with meat. Ashkenazic poskim generally hold Nat Bar Nat l&#8217;hetera b&#8217;Deavad (2nd generation tastes are permissible only after-the-fact). Now I think most Ashkenazic poskim allow 3rd and 4th generation flavors, which would mean that you can indeed eat the DE food on meat dishes even hot. See <a href="http://rabbi.bendory.com/docs/kashrus/kashrus02.php" rel="nofollow">http://rabbi.bendory.com/docs/kashrus/kashrus02.php</a> for a similar conclusion.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DeisCane</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6623</link>
		<dc:creator>DeisCane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 01:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6623</guid>
		<description>1) Possibly
2) Not likely</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Possibly<br />
2) Not likely</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Devon</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6622</link>
		<dc:creator>Devon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6622</guid>
		<description>OK, and if the pans are dairy, are all pareve ingredient baked goods usable

1) after meat meals
2) on meat dishes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, and if the pans are dairy, are all pareve ingredient baked goods usable</p>
<p>1) after meat meals<br />
2) on meat dishes</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DeisCane</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6621</link>
		<dc:creator>DeisCane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6621</guid>
		<description>I think baking would render them dairy.  I'm far from a kashrus expert but I just recall that heating is a big differentiator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think baking would render them dairy.  I&#8217;m far from a kashrus expert but I just recall that heating is a big differentiator.</p>
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		<title>By: elf</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6620</link>
		<dc:creator>elf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6620</guid>
		<description>LL: Thanks.  That's what I thought.

Devon: Good question.  I've wondered about that, too.  Anyone?

DeisCane: Silk doesn't make dairy products, so the dairy the equipment is used for is probably for something made by a &lt;a href="http://whitewavefoods.com/?section=Our+Brands" rel="nofollow"&gt;sister brand&lt;/a&gt;.

Eden Soy is certified kosher parve by circle-k.  (I think West Soy may be parve, too, but I don't really like the way it tastes.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LL: Thanks.  That&#8217;s what I thought.</p>
<p>Devon: Good question.  I&#8217;ve wondered about that, too.  Anyone?</p>
<p>DeisCane: Silk doesn&#8217;t make dairy products, so the dairy the equipment is used for is probably for something made by a <a href="http://whitewavefoods.com/?section=Our+Brands" rel="nofollow">sister brand</a>.</p>
<p>Eden Soy is certified kosher parve by circle-k.  (I think West Soy may be parve, too, but I don&#8217;t really like the way it tastes.)</p>
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		<title>By: DeisCane</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2008/07/10/silk-soy-creamer/#comment-6619</link>
		<dc:creator>DeisCane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=1103#comment-6619</guid>
		<description>to=does :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to=does :-)</p>
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