Silk Soy Creamer
I first learned about soy creamer from a blog called A Vegan Ice Cream Paradise. My local supermarkets don’t carry it, but I recently stopped by a store in a different neighborhood and found that it carries Silk brand creamer, which is marked “100% vegan.” Alas, it is also marked OU-D. Those who follow such matters know that the OU http://outest.org/index.php/faqs/no longer uses the “DE” (dairy equipment) designation, instead marking all dairy equipment products “D,” and this was clearly one such case. Normally, when I encounter an OU-D on a product that I suspect isn’t actually dairy, I just grumble and go on my way, but this time I was so sure that the creamer was really parve that I bought it anyway. When I got home, I went to the Silk Website and found the following in the FAQ:
Are Silk products dairy-free?
All Silk products including Silk Creamer and Silk Live!™ Soy Yogurt are completely dairy-free and safe for people with dairy allergies. None of our ingredients are made from animal products, by-products or derivatives. Our natural flavors do not contain any dairy or other animal products.
And then there was this:
Are Silk products kosher?
All Silk brand products in all flavors are certified Kosher OU-D. Kosher OU-D certifies that a dairy-free product was heated on equipment also used for dairy, and designates that dairy-free products heated on equipment also used for dairy may not be eaten together with a meat product. It may be eaten immediately after a meat product, but not together [my emphasis].
Finally:
Since Silk products are dairy-free, why is the Kosher certification OU-D?
All Silk products including Silk Creamer and Silk Live!™ Soy Yogurt are completely dairy-free and safe for people with dairy allergies. While Silk soy products do not contain dairy ingredients, they may be produced on equipment that also produces dairy products. Silk follows strict allergen cleanup procedures to ensure products made on shared equipment are dairy-free.Silk is certified Kosher OU-D, meaning they are dairy-free products made on dairy equipment.
In case you didn’t get it:
The D designates that the dairy-free product was heated on equipment also used for dairy and may not be eaten together with a meat product. It may be eaten immediately after a meat product, but not together [emphasis mine].
So there you have it. You can eat it immediately after a meat product, but not together.
I e-mailed the OU just to be 200% sure, and they confirmed that all Silk products are parve but made on dairy equipment. The e-mailer added the following:
You will not find the DE designation on a product certified by the OU. The OU designates dairy-free products made on dairy equipment with the ‘OU-D’ symbol and not ‘DE’ (Dairy Equipment). This due to the fact that the OU has seen that in industrial applications, very rarely is a proper cleanup performed after a dairy run before the Pareve run. As a result there is a problem of dairy residue entering the so-called Pareve product.
This seems reasonable to me, but I would not worry about it in the case of Silk products, since the company is adamant about its products being safe for those with dairy allergies, which requires an extremely high level of cleanliness. And of course, the OU says that you can have them after meat. So you can have them after meat.
According to R. Eidlitz, D.E. products are considered nat bar nat, so hot creamer should not come into contact with meat equipment. Therefore, you should not pour silk creamer into steaming hot coffee in a meat cup, but you can pour it into steaming hot coffee in a dairy cup and drink it after a meat meal (but not together). You can also make this ice cream* and eat it after a meat meal. Just be sure to do the cooking in a dairy saucepan and let the mixture cool before pouring it into your ice cream maker (which the manufacturers recommend, anyway).**
*I’m sure that some people find the very idea of vegan cheesecake ice cream disgusting, and I have to admit that it’s not for everyone, but I think it’s delicious. I’m excited to try more recipes from the site.
**I suspect that there are varying opinions on this subject, so consult a trusted halakhic advisor if you are inclined to investigate it further. There may also be a difference between Sephardi and Ashkenazi practice. (I am no expert on this subject. This is just guesswork based on what I’ve read. Ask someone who knows.)
The vast majority of Sephardic poskim don’t have the concept of “Dairy equipment” and “meat equipment”. For them, “DE” and “ME” = pareve. For those who hold by this ruling you could even make Swedish meatballs or Lamb paprikash using Silk Soy creamer.
See for example It Permissible to Use A Meat Pot To Cook A Parve Item That Will Be Mixed With A Dairy Item from the Sephardic Daily Halacha site.
Am I understanding correctly that by orthodox standards, I could serve a meat meal, then clear the meat dishes, and serve a dessert made from pareve ingredients (or OU-d (really de)), prepared with dairy utensils? Specifically, a soy ice cream made in my regular ice cream maker?
Yes. If the dessert is cold, you can actually serve it on meat dishes.
ok, great news – let’s go one step further – how about brownies, baked with de chocolate – are my pans dairy if I bake with de chocolate? Can I serve the de brownies on meat dishes? assuming I let them cool first….
What other products to Silk make that might be dairy? I’d be curious if it actually made any.
I would like a soy milk to cook with though so this is not really interesting news to me.
to=does :-)
LL: Thanks. That’s what I thought.
Devon: Good question. I’ve wondered about that, too. Anyone?
DeisCane: Silk doesn’t make dairy products, so the dairy the equipment is used for is probably for something made by a sister brand.
Eden Soy is certified kosher parve by circle-k. (I think West Soy may be parve, too, but I don’t really like the way it tastes.)
I think baking would render them dairy. I’m far from a kashrus expert but I just recall that heating is a big differentiator.
OK, and if the pans are dairy, are all pareve ingredient baked goods usable
1) after meat meals
2) on meat dishes
1) Possibly
2) Not likely
Pareve food cooked in dairy pans is Nat Bar Nat (2nd generation dairy taste). Nat bar Nat is too far removed of a dairy taste to be subject to the secondary prohibition against eating dairy after meat, so you can definitely eat the food after a meat meal.
You can also definitely eat the pareve-but-DE food cold on meat dishes (at least as long as the food isn’t spicy/sharp, which complicates matters) because flavor isn’t transmitted through cold contact.
It gets more interesting if you want to eat it hot on meat dishes. I think some authorities permit it, while others may not. Any flavor transmitted from the food to the plates is Nat bar Nat bar Nat (3rd generation flavor), while any meat/milk flavor in the food itself is 4th generation (dairy item -> dairy pan -> pareve food + meat food -> meat plate -> pareve food, so there are 4 steps between meat and milk). Sephardic poskim, who generally follow the position Nat Bar Nat l’hetera l’chatchila (2nd generation tastes are permissible even preferably), would certainly allow this because they even allow you to eat pareve-but-DE food directly with meat. Ashkenazic poskim generally hold Nat Bar Nat l’hetera b’Deavad (2nd generation tastes are permissible only after-the-fact). Now I think most Ashkenazic poskim allow 3rd and 4th generation flavors, which would mean that you can indeed eat the DE food on meat dishes even hot. See http://rabbi.bendory.com/docs/kashrus/kashrus02.php for a similar conclusion.
On a tangential note, I saw that the Vegan Ice Cream recipe uses arrowroot for thickening. I can’t find any arrowroot with a hechsher at Whole Foods (and none at all at the local supermarkets).
1. Does anyone know if arrowroot require a hechsher?
2. Can another thickening agent (tapioca, corn starch) be used satisfactorily as a substitute?
Thanks.
Here’s one place to get it: http://www.glutenfreemall.com/catalog/authentic-foods-arrowroot-glutenfree-flour-p-160.html
BS”D
Before they were certified by the OU, Silk soymilk and yogurt were all Scroll-K DE.
Purely Decadent, a premium soy-based dessert made by Turtle Mountain (makers of So Delicious), is sometimes certified California-K DE (other varieties are Heart-K parve), as is So Delicious yogurt.
Organic Valley soymilk is also OU-D and says next to the hechsher that it contains no dairy. One would have to check with the OU as to whether it is halachically DE or actual dairy. Whole Foods 365 Organic soymilk is parve, as are several others.
Be happy — its the Nine Days, and we all get a break this week from fussing over how long we are going to be fleishig!
Silk recently had a problem with dairy contamination in their soy milk, and my suspicion is that the OU’s statement is confirmed: too many companies do not wash up properly after a dairy run, and before a non-dairy one.
But there’s more: most soy yogurts are DE/D, because the live cultures are typically grown on dairy proteins. The temperature to encourage growth would be warm, but not very hot. How warm is too warm?
For myself, I note that Silk admits to sharing all but one factory with companies who use dairy. So we are now considering the cleaning habits of not one, but multiple companies. And yet, I find the whole business somewhat arbitrary. Graham crackers, for example, are typically made on shared lines with dairy – and I’ve seen a number labeled pareve. The list of exceptions and eyebrow raisings go on…no wonder the dairy allergy folks are going a little crazy over here. Thankfully, allergy is not halacha – halacha is far more forgiving.
For myself, I pour soy milk into coffee. So, I treat Silk as if it is milchigs, and go buy my soymilk from Whole Foods. Their house brand, at least, is pareve!
Those who have calcium fortified lines of soy milk may use dairy-based sources of calcium carbonate.The issue would be whether this was a derivative from milk that in itself carried no milk taste, and thus would escape prohibition as a dairy ingredient.
I find the discussion interesting, and as a biblical vegetarian who avoids all animal products or foods with any animal contact, this is sad that a potentially kosher food such as soy creamer or soy milk is processed on dairy equipment. In an ideal world, there would be no dairy procesing and no meat processing, and thus the concerns would be moot.
Contacting your local Orthodox rabbi about specific products is recommended. The individual who raised the question should be commended for alerting those who are concerned to the issue. However, the blogger overlooked several important nuances by Silk and OU..