Kosher Blog

Great review. I hope this place has staying power. I look foward to trying it out soon based upon this first look. Let us know of your insights as time goes on.

BS”D

The reviews on Chowhound were ot so glowing. True, the agreement was that the BBQ chicken was the best of the bunch, but the brisket was described as if it were tough and chewy, in other words, undercooked from the perspective of BBQ. BBQ chicken was not on the original menu, by the way. Judging from the menu, and the fact that it’s called “Tex-Mex”, BBQ is only one aspect of the concept, and a relatively unimportant one at that. I can how people unfamiliar with BBQ would find the BBQ enticing, but it is only with experience that one can learn the quality of the offerings relative to other BBQ out there. I also hope it lasts, but I hope the brisket gets tender.

BBQ is a difficult enough cuisine that few would even take it on in a restaurant setting. The learning curve is steep. Variables are the amount and type of smoke, cooking temperature and the humidity of the oven. Let us hope they continue learning, and don’t rest on their laurels. Perhaps some baal teshuvah customers familar with BBQ in their previous lives would critique the food, to give the owners the kind of input that can only come from the cogniscente.

My wife is a convert who grew up with real Southern BBQ and she loved it.

I will be attending a gathering of Jewish motorcyclists in Teaneck this May. I’ve added this restaurant on to my personal agenda during my stay up there. Before I went kosher, I ate a lot of BBQ, so I’m looking forward to a meal here! (my mouth is already watering)

I’m definitely going to have to get out there, ASAP. Their website says they hope to be open on Saturday nights in the Fall/Winter. Somewhat of a problem if you need 5 or more hours to cook your entrees.

DANG–all that BBQ looks absolutely fabulous . . . now all I need is a pretext to fly from Seattle to Teaneck!

Sounds really appetizing I’ll make sure it’s on my list of new restaurants to check out.

I don’t envy New Yorkers/New Jerseyans for much, but their selection of kosher restaurants gives Jewish living there a real edge. Up here in Boston, we’re desperate . . .

I am drooling!!!

Big E – please! You are desperate in Boston? Try living in Texas! SURROUNDED by delicious-smelling barbecue and not being able to eat a bite!

totally drooling all over the keyboard here in chicago, il.

BS”D

During Pesach, I BBQed a brisket, a couple of turkey breasts and 6 chickens- for Shabbos and one of the last days. We had guests, so I figured why not make something that not everyone had before. I still haven’t gotten the brisket down pat (a 15 hour smoke over plum wood, and it tasted great, but the texture wasn’t perfect), but it didn’t stop the guests and family from practically inhaling it all in record time. One guest, a rabbi, later commented that when we were privileged to truly rejoice in the korban Pesach, he wanted to be registered to my family’s Pesach- high praise indeed. Especially for something as yet unperfected on my offset smoker (the best of the bunch was the turkey breast, perfect every time). And that’s the problem- people who haven’t had BBQ before, and most frum Jews are among this group, are happy to praise anything decent, without being able to discern nuances of quality. I found that with wine, and I’m finding that with Q. But there is a gradation from mediocre to good to excellent to spectacular, and I truly hope people will eventually be able to tell the difference. At this point, the observant Jewish audience can’t even discuss the merits of the classic stylistic differences between Texas and KC and KY and NC regions and Louisiana and California, much less understand the differences between 2 Qs derived from the same style.

A Q joint can’t be everything to all people. More actually detracts. Like Chinese- American, or Chinese-Israeli-Sushi. How can anyone take it seriously? I’m glad that Smokey Joe’s made decent alternative fare. But a diverse menu is overrated. The picture of the Smokey-Joe’s kitchen tells the story in a nutshell. Nearly as much space devoted to the convection oven as the smoker.

I had hoped that my BBQ joint would be the first in the USA, but then I heard about Smokey Joe’s from my sister in White Plains- they had donated a dinner to a Chinese Auction at the kids’ school in Riverdale. And they weren’t even open yet- still a few months out. But I wasn’t about to jump the gun and come out with a less-than-well-planned execution. That means location, business plan, food, the works, and that’s why it’s still not up. The food will be Q and sides. And maybe burgers for the kiddies. Mostly takeout and “catering”, with minimum sit-down, like most general market BBQ joints. So that’s what I”ve been working on since September. And although I can’t eat nonkosher Q, I can smell, feel and dissect it. All in the name of research. And I’ll no doubt make it to Smokey Joe’s before too long, if I can snag a decent fare. Then I’ll see how it compares.

Um, Craig. You will be shipping Q back home to Louisville by UPS when you open, won’t you? If you make Q like wine (and I know you will) then we will need a steady connection.

BS”D

Well, Jon, I’ll certainly try, since I want to get it to my mom, and obviously you’re ready for it too. But shipping food to arrive in good condition is not easy, so I’ll need to research it first. Don’t want anyone to get sick.

My wife and I became Kosher approximately two years ago and prior to that, although we never would eat pork products or mix milk with meat, we would consume chicken and meat products at non-kosher restaurants. Indeed, our culinary journeys led us to many stellar establishments through the years. Loving BBQ and Tex-Mex, we have dined at well-known places such as Blue Smoke and Mesa Grill in NYC, RJ’s in Beverly Hills, and the like. We were absolutely overjoyed and thrilled to stumble upon Smokey Joes Cafe in Teaneck, NJ! Not only was the food sumptuous and savory by Kosher standards, but it was on par with non-Kosher restaurants of the same genre. Every single thing that we consumed was fantastic, including: the chips, salsa, guacamole, bbq sauce, corn soup, Buffalo wings, BBQ chicken, and brisket. In fact, we enjoyed our experience so much that we actually called friends mid-meal to invite them to join us for a subsequent dining experience at Smokey Joe’s. Lastly, the owner was attentive, intuitive, knowledgable, and welcoming and the staff was friendly and accommodating!

Craig:
I once went so far as to order Dougie’s by UPS. They froze the products and packed them in dry ice. It worked fine, but was very expensive. If I’d do that for Dougies, imagine what I’d do for really good and authentic Q. BTW, the Rabbi at United Orthodox in Houston (Rabbi Radinsky) used to supervise a smoke house in deep East Texas. It was amazing Texas-style brisket. That is the standard in my book.

BS”D

I remember a funky chicken restaurant in Houston (evidently no longer in exisitence) and it did BBQ brisket as well. My sister took-out a bunch to have at her home when we we all flying in there for a bar or bas mitzvah, so that we would all gather at her house as we arrived. Wasn’t very good stuff, but it was kosher. I’ve heard of some that used to exist in Dallas as well- my bro-in-law partook when he was there for a convention. Each of these places folded, either because of mediocre food (ans I can vouch that the Houston place was pretty mediocre) or for lack of proper planning. I would have loved to try either the Dallas place or the deep East Texas place- now that sounds wonderful!

So you did that for Dougie’s? If there are others like you around, maybe I’ll do a brisk UPS business.

We used to order Dougie’s by Fedex to Brandeis for holidays.

THE BEST BBQ I HAVE EVER TASTED!!! THE SMOKER IS AMAZING!!

BS”D

Is the smoker really amazing? Just a standard small gas-fired automatic Southern Pride, capable of doing only 160-190 lbs at a time, about half, or less, the size of what most BBQ joints would have (500-700 lb smokers are pretty average, multiples of that amount are not uncommon). And that’s what I mean by planning. People are going to be heading there for BBQ, not for their alternative items. Yet, they sized their kitchen for Q to be the adjunct to their other food rather than for Q to be the primary food. Which is fine for a start-up if they have room to expand later, either with another second smoker or with a larger one.

So Imainish, now that we’ve established that the smoker is pretty standard stuff, I think you should credit the PITMASTER for making the best BBQ you’ve ever tasted. The smoker is just a piece of equipment. The pitmaster chooses the meat, any marinade, spice rub and mop, wood type, temperature, airflow, smoking time, and finally any glaze that’s on the meat. If you like the food, credit the cook, not the oven.

Is it not appropriate to use the term smoker for the person in charge of smoking the meat? Maybe that’s what IMAINISH meant?

Craig Winchell,

Please call me at Smokey Joes – 201-836-RIBS. Until then, Please stop posting sniggling comments when you have’nt even been to my place. Despit your comments otehrwise, The reviews on chowhound were quite good, though any “professional” reviewer would have waited at least a month before posting any comments about abrand new place.
And stop making comments about the size of our smoker. Size does not matter, but just to be clear, the smoker we have is bigger than yours. And the one we install at our next restaurant will still be bigger than yours. And stop making assumptions about what our guests order. As equally popular as our Q is our chicken chocolate mole – an authentic prepartion that takes all day to cook. Our guests are raving about it. I understand that YOU may be able to only prpeare good Q, but we can actually do more than that.
In short, i encourage you to stop talking and start acting. If your Q is so fantastic then open up your place and start serving. It would be great for there to be more good Q. Until then, if you want to learn how to actually make great Q on a commercial level, feel free to stop by and we will gladly give you a free lesson. Oh yeah, we will even show you how to package it and ship it, something we are launching on our website in two weeks.
In short, please stop talking as if your are the pit master from heaven when you haven’t even opened up a bbq joint.
Warm regards,
Smokey

Is it just me, or is all of this debate about the size of the smoker and whether it matters just a little bit… err… dirty?

Maybe it’s just me and my sick, twisted mind.

On a more serious note (could I be less serious than my last comment?), I’m excited to read that Smokey will be shipping product soon. The Q-deprived crowd in Beantown will be appreciative!

USDA-approved shipping? I don’t think the feds like meat crossing state lines without their say-so.

Comment to SmokeyJoe:

I plan to get there, and hope to enjoy myself immensely, to both our benefit (I’ll benefit at my tastebuds-not my waistline- and you;ll benefit in your pocketbook). I really do hope that your BBQ is wonderful, and wish you much success. You’ve made history. The first kosher Q in the USA. And by all accounts, it’s good. The only question is how good. I guess I’ll find that out when I get there.

As to size of smoker, anything that can be done in a big one can be done in a small one, qualitywise. But relative size of different pieces of equipment does relate to scope of the endeavor, and I am glad that you admit to being interested in doing things, and being good at them, other than Q. And I hope you can do everything wonderfully. In my experience, trying to do many things well is more difficult than doing a few things well. Still, if you can, yasher koach! Your experience is not necessarily the same as mine.

Finally, your smoker is bigger than mine- I admit it humbly. But I do hope that won’t always be the case. If a BBR-79-1 will satisfy all of the demand, then I’ll have gotten into the wrong business. Bo’s Barbecue in Lafayette, CA typically does about 20 briskets/day, and 40/day on some weekends. Not to mention the ribs and chicken and pulled pork. He has the large Oyler unit. So my bracha to you is that demand should soon require you to upsize, and you should profit accordingly.

Peace at last between the East Coast and West Coast Smokers?

I stand corrected. No disrespect to the Pitmaster was intended. Point was the food was great!

I know what you were saying, Imainish. And it’s not as if there were not precedent in the food world for praising a piece of kitchen equipment instead of the cook. I remember a Chowhound thread in praise of broasters, where the Broaster, as a piece of equipment, was praised for the uniformly perfect results of the fried chicken. Indeed, the original poster was trying to put together a list or map of broaster places in Los Angeles, so that he never could be too far away from the resulting delectible chicken to satisfy his craving. But while all American BBQ is smoked, and therefore owes its existence to the smoker, it carries the unique imprint of the person who brought it to existence.

We visited Joe’s and enjoyed it very much. A bit hot for our taste, though I understand that they are working to adjust to offer different levels of heat for different tastes. The kids menu worked well for our kids too, who do not like spicy fare. The service was friendly but slow (and we never got the onion relish for the yummy corn bread), though in fairness they were VERY crowded as it was right before Pesach and they are still a new place. We hope to return and try other menu items too.

I would encourage whoever posted above for Joe’s to remember that we can disagree civilly, even when being criticized or criticizing. No need to get defensive or nasty about it. Everyone, even distant competition, is entitled to an opinion and friendly ‘ribbing’.

Shabbat Shalom

I went back to Smokey Joe’s last night and I am happy to say the shakedown period is over. The service last night was fantastic.

I also got a chance to chat with Joe a bit. Joe is passionate about what he does and it shows in his restuarant and his food. His goal with Smokey Joe’s is to give the customer a great meal in a relaxed and fun environment where it is ok to roll up your sleeves and eat with your elbows on the table. I can assure everyone that this is exactly what Smokey Joe’s is about, and they are sure to be around for a long time.

I was there Tuesday night. I was very impressed with the place. Clean, well lit, even the restroom was clean. Everyone was cordial, ready to do anything to please. Nice terra cotta earthy tones to please the eye, kitchy standard butcher paper tablecloths for effect and utility, and personnel providing excellent service. And unlike what I’d heard elsewhere, the brisket was even acceptably tender. Not wanting to eat too much, I just ordered the combo plate of ribs, chicken and brisket, since BBQ was the thrust of my visit. Unfortunately, that left me without the ability to try the ceviche, a food that I often adore even more than sushi, and of course, the brisket chile about which I’d heard so many good things.

Kraft paper table cloths. Butcher paper is white. Sorry.

BS”D

Last post on the subject. When I was served, all three items on the sampler plate had been slathered with their sauce, and all of the items smelled the same, and they smelled of liquid smoke. In fact, I could not find any evidence of true smoking except for a slight pink tinge in the interior of the chicken breast characteristic of smoking- even the rib interiors were brown, and I couldn’t find a smoke ring on the brisket. But I did bring both brisket and ribs home with me, packed by the folks at Smokey Joe’s, together with a tub of sauce. And I’m pleased to say that they made it back to California in good condition. Well, it seems that each of the items had been packed without sauce. When they were defrosted, I was able to evaluate each item without the sauce. I’m pleased to say that both of the items did exhibit true smoke character and the flesh of the ribs was pink, as it should have been, and there even was a slight smoke ring in the brisket. And the sauce definitely had liquid smoke, which when hot, overpowered the aromas of the meat. The fault, from my perspective, rests clearly on the sauce. Of course, others like the sauce a great deal, but my objection, aside from what to me is overwhelming sweetness is that it masks the true smokey character of the meat. Serving the sauce on the side would help a great deal in mitigating this.

In any case, in both cases the brisket’s texture was tender and moist, the ribs were toothsome, and the chicken on the combo plate was moist and properly cooked. If only they could serve the sauce on the side, and maybe work up another one without the liquid smoke and overwhelming sweetness.

we went last night and enjoyed ourselves

I ordered a full rack for take out. When I walked in to pick up my order I was the only person standing at the counter waiting for three employees to stop ignoring me and to end their casual converation. I then could not believe how badly I had been ripped off by these theives. I recieved what I would consider a quarter rack of ribs at best. They must be delusional to call these tiny 5 ribs a full rack. Take some advise from me and stay far away from this place. As far as I’m concerned, they can’t go out of business soon enough. And they probably will!

BS”D

John, they’re not cutting ribs from the roasts themselves, they’re purchasing cases of ribs, probably from Rubashkin. And Rubashkin trims them pretty darned close, so that there’s not much meat. And 5 ribs is a rack as they come from Rubashkin. As you might know, the “floating ribs” are considered part of the loin, and are sold with the back half of the animal. The most forward ribs are part of the chuck. So I don’t think you could get a rib roast too much bigger than 5 bone anyway. I think I’ve seen 7 bone roasts, but Rubashkin packages 5 ribs as a rack, so I guess that’s what SJ consideres to be a rack (which makes a half rack pretty hard to do, so they probably usually package 4 as a rack, and indeed, I got 4 ribs whn I asked for a rack to take back to California with me). I’m not saying it’s right, but I’m saying that 5 ribs is the “kosher convention” for a rack, and you got 1 more rib than I did, so you should feel good about it. And if you don’t like the amount of meat on the ribs, tell the people at SJ, and maybe they can change the supplier (Alle or International Glatt or someone else, rather than Rubashkin, if indeed they use Rubashkin). But I do ribs all the time, and straight out of the case, Rubashkin is 5 rib racks.

BS”D

OK, just got my first commercial smoker (quite a bit bigger than SJ’s- nya nya- sorry, couldn’t resist) now to see whether I can make as good of food on a professional unit as I can on my backyard offset. Theoretically, it should be much easier to duplicate results, since the temperature is easier to control, but I have no idea how much smoke this puts out (like SJ’s it’s a Southern Pride unit, which burns wood for smoke but not necessarily for heat, unlike the Oyler units by JR Manufacturing). The advantage is savings on the cost of wood, less difficulty in wood storage, and microprocessor control for ease of duplication and customization of cycle, the disadvantage is unknown smoke output (maybe it’s too little).

What a wonderful kosher restaraunt! The whole family enjoyed it and it was even worth navigating the GW bridge. The service was excellent, the food tasty, decor was nice, and overall a place I will return to again.

Got a chance to try Smokey’s a couple Fridays ago, and would describe it as a lukewarm experience. Debby, our server, was prompt, friendly, and provided good advice on how to order. The cornbread and onion jam were very tasty. We started with their tilapia ceviche, which, we learned on its arrival, is made with cooked fish. Given the amount of cilantro it was packed with, I’d call it more of a tilapia-cilantro salad than ceviche. (Look out for plenty more cilantro in their salsa. The homemade tortilla chips, though, were a nice touch.) I ordered the “full rack” of ribs, which, unfortunately, bore no resemblance to any rack of ribs I’d ever made or seen. It consisted of a handful of tough meat chunks, with a couple charred bones thrown in. As others have mentioned, the sauce was too sweet for my taste, and the portion was pretty paltry. For $25, frankly, I expected a heftier portion, and a meal that could approach (if not exceed) in quality what I make at home. My recommendation is to buy some real Texas beef ribs from your butcher, and follow Cook’s Illustrated’s oven-smoking method — contact the blog for a copy of the recipe.

BS”D

If you want meaty ribs, buy a standing rib roast and then have the butcher cut out most of the eye as a boneless roast, paying particular attention to leaving plenty of meat on the bones. But beware, that meat is as valuable as boneless rib roast. That’s why the packaged ribs are largely devoid of meat except between the bones- because the meat is too valuable by itself. Or, what I often do is go to the flanken, and purchase a full 5-rib flanken. It has plenty of meat, but it’s really tough, and requires really long smoking to get tender. But it is flavorful, there’s plenty of meat, the size of the bones is quite impressive, and it’s somewhat less expensive per pound than having the butcher custom-cut the rib roast, and it can be purchased as-is, also available in cases. Retail, that 5-rib flanken goes for almost $50, though, and wholesale ain’t that much cheaper, so expect expensive if you want that in a restaurant.

I ate the “full” rack at Smokey Joe’s the other night. I was incredibly disappointed – the “full” rack is 5 short ribs (which were VERY fatty – maybe it was just my order that night – but it was like eating rubber-bands). I would never return to this place – the decor was awful, and the service left A LOT TO BE DESIRED. Our first course came after our main course. All in all a terrible experience – I would not suggest this place to anyone, and would be embarrassed to bring a non-kosher eater there!

A new player in the kosher Q world:
http://www.theglattsmokehouse.com/

Looks interesting.

BS”D

Yes, Jon, I posted the name on Chowhound last Friday, but nobody responded, and at that time I didn’t see a web site and was still looking for info, so I’m glad you came up with it. Looks like it’s just catering at this point.

The blogger went there on the first night, and finished off the blog expecting the restaurant to improve. Well, I was there last night and they seem to have done just the opposite. Never in my life have I had such an undesirable dining experience. The food was only mediocre, which is unsurprising in Teaneck, as this is a very undiscerning market. What made it so horrid was the owner. When was made the reservations and when we were seated, they never thought to inform us that their ribs, which they advertise so well, would be unavailable. It seemed to so defeat the purpose of our visit that one of us suggested just going across the street. But that is only minor. When the fajitas came, we found hair in the onions and sent it back. When they brought back a new fajitas plate, guess what was in the onions. Yep, hair again. I don’t like making scenes, and didn’t think it fair that the waitress was subjected to dealing with something so unacceptable in a restaurant setting, so I went directly to the owner, quietly. He denied the mistake and even came over to our table to demean and intimidate the orderer of the fajitas, suggesting she was a liar. She was so afraid of him (he is a heavy guy) that she began crying. She had to leave she was so humiliated and afraid.
That the owner would rather deny his restaurant’s mistakes and taunt his customers versus acknowledging the problem and taking steps to ensure it will not happen in the problem is the reason that I will NEVER suggest this restaurant or give it another shot.
So, I say to you, save yourself the time and humiliation, eat elsewhere.

Found this blog recently, so this comment is a little late- but my husband being from the UK and in NY/NJ for a visit, we tried several resturants and this was the worst. We were ignored and had to ask for service and finally got a table in the ‘ugly’ side of the resturant- there are a few tables in teh ‘nice’ entry side of the resturant, the rest of the tables are near the kitchen, noise, gross smells and chatting annoying workers. I should have noticed and walked out right away, but stuck it out for some odd reason. After ordering we sampled the disgusting cornbread. We got our food about 15 minutes later, and they all looked like they had been sitting out all day and re heated in the microwave. My plate especially – all the food was starting to mush together, there was no way it had just been put onto the plate. I took a few bites of my chicken and ended up sharing with my husband from his plate instead. It tasted better but still kind of blah. Especially for the prices! We felt sick afterwards and could barely move. Total waste of food, time, and money.

Well, I havent been back to this place since May and from the looks of it, it seems like Smokey Joe’s has gone the way of many kosher restaurant. This doesnt really suprise me, but I was hoping Smokey Joes would be one of the few kosher establishments that wouldnt lose its shine after a couple of months.

I really would like to get to the bottom of this, why do kosher restaurant go downhill so quickly?

I think Kosher Connoisseur might have hit on one of the reasons, the typical kosher diner is not very discerning. CAN WE CHANGE THAT???? Plus all of the kosher restaurants have a captive audience. Do owners of kosher places really thing that they can skimp of quality because the diners are going to come back anyway?

I must admit I am not one of these captives, but I do hope that kosher dining will go through some sort of renisance soon.

I was really pulling for Smokey Joe’s and am disapointed to see how things have turned out. Although, to be fair I might give them another shot and see this for myself.

Seth, You should see for yourself. Kosher Con-noussir is a liar and he knows it. He has attempted to influence the general public with his lies in an attempt to drive Smokey Joe’s out of business by posting on several blogs, but he hasn’t succeeded as of yet.
And as for the woman from England – that’s funny – we just had soemone begging us to open in London. People who post and blog out to have more respect for what others do. Seth, you took the time to write an in depth review and point out some flaws, judiciously, and your opinion was respected. We spoke, and I did mention to you that I would never post a review about a retsuarant taht has been open only two weeks – it usually takes at least that long for the kinks to work out.
But let’s deal with CON-noussir specifically. On another blog he calims taht we ignored him and he had to seat himself. Actually, we were setaing others who were in front of his party. He very rudely sat himself and did not give us the time to seat him.
Now with regard to teh hair thing – the very funny thing is taht he hair that he kept claiming was in his food was “Blond”. We apologized and then immediately remade the order. But then he came up with teh same story a second time. Now here is the funny part: all of our cooks are Latinos from Mexico or Colombia. You ever seen a guy with blond hair from Mexico? Even all of our waiters have dark hair. So from where was this blond hair coming from? I don’t know, but it wasn’t from us.
So this kid (he is about 25-27 yrs old.)comes up to me as I am trying to assist another guest and STICKS THE FORK IN MY FACE and starts speaking in a very loud voice. But still trying to be genrous with this guy I said – ‘I’m sorry, I guess we just can’t seem to satisfy you tonight.” But as I noted, I was in the middle of trying to help other guests – and this kid follows me over to teh other guest’s table and is still ranting at me. I told him in no uncertain terms to SIT Down and that if he did not knwo how to conduct himself then he should “step outside.” In other posts, he has willfully misconstrued this language to imply that I was theratening him “to step outside”, but he knows this is not true because I told him that if he couldn’t calm down I would call the police. His relative began to allegedly cry – (I have never seen a grown perosn cry over a fajita or even bad service) and she ran out. In an exteremly loud voice he DEMANDED that I apologize to her.

At that I point I told him he was out of there. I removed the fajita from their bill ( I would never ask a customer to pay for something they did not enjoy) and presented them with their bill for the other entrees.

What this young man does not know is that after he left I received general applause from the rest of the dinners who felt that 1) he was a total blowhard and that 2) given the circumstances, I was more than diplomatic.

Seth, I am really surprised that you would even think that we have gone “downhill” without checking it out for yourself. The very funny thing is that just the other day I checked in with three tables – two of the tables thought our food was AMAZING, and the other table wasn’t in love with it. They felt there was too much sauce and they didn’t love the suace. DE GUSTIBUS NON DISPUTATUM – which means, you can’t argue with taste (because it is a personal and subjective thing.) So I asked them what else I could do to make them happy – and they couldn’t answer the question. They are so used to being cowed and denied at other kosher restaurants that they can’t believe that someone genuinely cares enough to make them happy.
SO here is my committment to customer satisfaction: If there is something more that we can do to make you happy (and you promise not to stick your fork in any staff members face) we will move heaven and earth to make you happy.

Smokey Joe,

P.S. The thing that really bothers me is this kid keeps calling me fat. Think about it: I own the olny authentic pit smoked kosher bbq. Would you really want me to be skinny?

Smokey Joe:

Since you asked, I’ve got some suggestions:

1. More meat in the brisket chili. The first time I had it, it was awesome. The second time, several months later, it was flavored beans and rice with the occasional bit of brisket.

2. Less Sauce. (This may be, as Craig has pointed out, something that people more familiar with BBQ prefer. I suspect we aren’t the majority of your customer base.)

3. Spellcheck you posts first. You cook much better than you type.

—matt

Frightening how easy it is to defame someone on an anonymous blog. My family has eaten at Smokey’s numerous times (and taken out as well) and not only have we loved the food (it’s not perfect, but has been consistently good), we’ve found Joe to be the perfect gentleman and a breath of fresh air as restaurant owners go. He always welcomes all his customers personally and is incredibly solicitous about the food, etc…Their guacamole and smoked chicken are delicious, my kids love the brisket, and the refillable pitcher of lemonade is great. My only regrettable meal recently was a portobello hamburger that just didn’t taste right; my previous burger there (guacamole burger) was excellent.

Keep up the good work, Joe, and keep listening to your customers suggestions–but ignore crazy rude people who are looking to make trouble.

BS”D

In post # 33 of this thread, I noted in passing that visually, SJ’s Q had little evidence of true smoking in terms of a smoke ring. Having been working with my own Southern Pride smoker for a few months now, I have come to the conclusion that it’s very difficult to get a very nice smoke ring from my Southern Pride smoker, and I would imagine from his as well. It doesn’t produce smoke in the same manner that a roaring wood fire does, and I conclude it doesn’t produce the nitrites in the smoke in a concentration required to really generate a nice smoke ring. In other words, if I wanted to generalize, lack of a smoke ring should not be held as a negative when using Southern Pride equipment, or at least if it can, then the equipment itself contributes the negative. It’s possible to get a fire working that will produce a good smoke ring, but it’s a waste of good wood to not smoke meat over that time. And it is possible to get intense smokey flavor from a Southern Pride in the absence of a smoke ring. But they sure do look nice, dem rings.

Discerning Eye

Thnaks for your kind post. And remember, you never have to eat something that you do not enjoy. You just have to tell your server. Before you eat the whole thing (Its kind of funny, but us owners do not like it when people eat the whole thing and then say they didn’t enjoy it. What are we supposed to do, not charge you for it? Plus, it doesn’t give us a chance to make something else that you will enjoy, since you will obviously be to full.)

Craig,
Keep smoking! But as you make plans to open you own version of Smokey Joe’s on the West Coast, there is a learning curve for your CUSTOMERS. Not all enjoy a heavy smoke (or any smoke) – so it may be that the Southern Pride is the perfect machine for our customer base.

I would work on my typing sklls but I’d rather perfect my smokin’ technique.

All the Best to God’s Children,
Smokey Joe

BS”D

Now wait just a minute, here. I’m not establishing my own version of Smokey Joe’s in CA. I’ve been working on this for many months before I ever heard of you, and I heard of you a couple of months before you opened. The only thing in common is that we will both serve legitimate versions of Q, mine being totally different than yours.

The mass marketing of food has never been part of the concept. I will not be the culinary equivalent of the Clintons, subject to the whims of the polls. A food product will be presented, with the hopes that consumers find the product appealing. If so, it remains on the menu. If not, it’s off. But the food will be made to my specifications, not those of the consumers. I like a heavy smoke. I like particular meats. That’s what will be presented. And of course, that’s why I’m starting on so much smaller a scale than you. Because I’m not a mass marketer, never have been. There is no learning curve on the part of consumers, because they know immediately what they like. So there are 2 choices- to target what the majority of the population likes, or to target the portion of the population who like what you like. There’s been plenty of research to show what the population likes, and plenty of anecdotal evidence. I prefer the latter choice.

The Southern Pride can make a wonderfully smokey Q. The problem is not the smoke level, but generating the natural pinkish red ring in the periphery of the meat, an interaction between myoglobin and the natural nitrite in the smoke. I know a professional pitmaster in WA state who says that it’s better not to have it, because when he’d smoke chickens, people would always complain that they were underdone because of the pink meat, and his Cookshack FE, since it had a difficult time generating smoke rings, became his chicken cooker. Still, I find the ring highly appealing.

Craig,

Your highly opinionated posts not withstanding ( I like people with strong opinions) I long ago invited you to give me call to compare notes. I was intentionally tweaking your nose in suggesting that you were opening a Westcoast version of Smokey Joe’s. My offer still stands – call me at 201-836-7427 and we can trade stories as craftsmen rather than speaking to one another through the blog.

But here is my question for you:
If you intend to present what YOU like, and don’t really care what your customers think, then why go into a business where trying to please the public is so important to the success of the business?

BS”D

Joe, I knew you were baiting me, and I wanted to show that it wasn’t lost on me.

As to the restaurant, service must be consumer oriented. The kitchen must be clean, the restrooms must be clean, the staff must be nice,and the food must be of high quality, and the proprietor must be receptive to consumer feedback, to a certain extent. For instance, if the rub has more cayenne than most people like, the proprietor must be prepared to tone it down, if he can do so while preserving the tone and feel of the dish. If the rub is too salty for most people, then here again, if one can tone down the salt without sacrificing the basic taste of the dish, so be it (though salt is a restaurateur’s friend when it comes to drinks, especially when offering specialty beers). But when the entire basis for the dish is a certain amount of smokey flavor, then to decrease the amount of smoke is to sacrifice the distinctiveness, the very nature of the dish. The smoke component of the flavor profile of the Q I like best, which influences the balance of the food I’m planning to prepare, is far more intense than yours, but both yours and mine will be well within the spectrum of nonkosher BBQ places. I want more than just a wisp of smoke, except in the most delicate of foods. And as I say, I’m not a wet Q person, though I can see providing some sauce on the side for those who absolutely must have it. To me, it’s the rub and smoke, not the sauce, that makes BBQ what it is. Especially with beef BBQ, which is made everywhere but which composes the heart of TX BBQ, which is typically served dry, or with a thin juice-based sauce on the side. But in any case, the character of the dish should ring true.

When you’re in the area visiting, you should no doubt stop in (I trust you visit occasionally). In the meantime, we can certainly take things to the phone.

craig: when are you opening?

Smokey Joe, do you mean that if I order something and there’s nothing wrong with it except that I just don’t like it, I should send it back and expect the restaurant not to charge me? I have always assumed that it’s my “fault” for ordering it, and now that I know that I don’t like it I won’t order it again. The only times I’ve sent food back and refused to pay for it have been when I know what a dish is supposed to taste like, especially if I’ve had it before at that restaurant so I know what their recipe is supposed to taste like, and it’s just bad. But if I see something on a menu that I’ve never had before I’m likely to order it, and sometimes I find that I like it, and sometimes I find that I don’t; is it really the case that I can experiment at the restaurant’s expense, so to speak, by sending back anything that I don’t like?

Alyssa, I’m hoping to open either before Pesach or chol hamoed, but I won’t guarantee it. I wanted to do so before Purim, but I don’t think that’s gonna happen.

Oh, you’ve found a location? Mazel tov!

Craig,

Where’s it going to be?

-a

BS”D
When it’s further along I’ll give more info.

Milhouse,

Correct. If you do not enjoy it, send it back. We are the only kosher restaurant that sells an authentic Mole (it is made by our sous chef, Orlando, whose mother made it for him in Mexico), but it is an unusual dish. Many of our guests LOVE it, but some do not. We try to offer new guests a sample of the sauce, which is made with chocolate, spices, nuts, and other ingredients – becuase it is definitely different and we don’t want the guest to send it back if they are not going to enjoy it.
But we do want our guests to explore and try new things.
Our committment to our customers is that they enjoy the EXPERIENCE of being at Smokey Joe’s. We know that if guests understand that we are committed to them, and not a specific entree, the guests will keep coming back. You wouldn’t want to order 4 dishes and send back three, but yes, we will keep working until you are satisfied.
Indeed, guests do keep coming back and we are working on plans to expand our current location.
And we do ship. Orders have gone out to L.A., D.C., Ct., Fl., and Alaska.
O.K., I am kidding about Alsaka.

As one who has observed the extensive exchanges between Craig and Smokey Joe, I am very pleased that the dialogue has become quite civil even evidencing some notes of mutual respect. Could I prevail upon you both to report on the outcome of your phone discussions as there are very few individuals qualified to opine on kosher Q and I would love to hear what the two of you agree on.
Joe, I am a customer and I think highly of the service and quality at S.J.’s. I would add, though, that I am one of those (few?) who preferred the more intense flavors that Smokey Joe’s offered during its first few weeks of operation. Craig, you might take note, and I suspect that Joe can confirm, that the kosher clientele is not ready (will it ever be?) for really bold flavors. Or as we say, the oylam is a goylem.

We are working on the second incarnation of our menu. One of our decisions is to try and put control of the spice/heat into our customers’ hands. Thus, we will offer mild, medium , and through the roof. You have to understand, our cooks eat raw jalepenos with their breakfast. So their idea of spicy is “THROUGH THE ROOF”.
Correct, a majority of Ashkenazi customers prefer things mild. Still, you see plenty of people who do appreciate well flavored food.

Kosher Critic, anytime you come in you can ask the cooks to make it really spicy. But, unlike my previous post, if the heat starts to make you cry, you can not send it back or we will bring out a pacifier and blanket for you.

Smokey Joe

P.S. There haven’t been extensive posts between me and Craig. Craig was first a critic, but he also wasn’t completely honest and open by acknowledging that he was hoping to be a competitor. I think the blogsphere is great, but I think it should be promoted with more honesty and integrity rather than misdirection and subterfuge.

Craig’s in LA. Hardly a competitor.

This is Craig’s post from May 4th:

“and all of the items smelled the same, and they smelled of liquid smoke. In fact, I could not find any evidence of true smoking except for a slight pink tinge in the interior of the chicken breast characteristic of smoking- even the rib interiors were brown, and I couldn’t find a smoke ring on the brisket.

NOT TRUE – We do not use liquid smoke and I told Craig this.

And then again from May 21:
John, they’re not cutting ribs from the roasts themselves, they’re purchasing cases of ribs, probably from Rubashkin. And Rubashkin trims them pretty darned close,

NOT TRUE – and I also told Craig this.

But we get to the real point on April 20:
Craig Winchell-
I had hoped that my BBQ joint would be the first in the USA, but then I heard about Smokey Joe’s from my sister in White Plains- they had donated a dinner to a Chinese Auction.

My point, DeisCane, is that Craig never refrained from pontificting or representing himself as a bbq expert, even when he was wrong.

Shouldn’t that call into question many of his posts? Wouldn’t it have been simpler to call me (as I invited him to do) and ask if we used those items?
In the interest of full disclosure, shouldn’t he have started his first post with an acknowledgment that he hoped to be the first authentic kosher bbq restaurant in the USA?

I don’t think our bbq is the best in the world, but I do know taht it is the only authentic, slow-cooked, kosher bbq that is commercially available. Over time, I believe our bbq will get better and better, because we are true craftsmen dedicated to making an excellent product. We also have respect for our guests, which means that each day we put on our game faces and do our best. We don’t always succeed, but from the many rave reviews we have gotten from a loyal following, I think we succeed a great many times. It really does bother me when people post nasty posts or uninformed posts out of spite. They should have a little more decency and respect for someone who has dedicated himself to making great food. Our attempt at creating the first authentic kosher bbq is not perfect, but every day we work to bring it a little closer to perfection.

My last post regarding Craig’s posts was not meant to be unkind to Craig. It was menat to set the record straight.

So for the record, I wish Craig as much Mazal as we have had. Anyone who opens a restaurant needs Mazal, and anyone who opens a kosher restuarant, Al Kamah ViKama. And anyone who opens a glatt kosher BBQ needs to have his head examined!
Yussel

Craig also said some nice stuff:

31.At 1:37 pm on May 3rd, 2007, Craig Winchell wrote:
I was there Tuesday night. I was very impressed with the place. Clean, well lit, even the restroom was clean. Everyone was cordial, ready to do anything to please. Nice terra cotta earthy tones to please the eye, kitchy standard butcher paper tablecloths for effect and utility, and personnel providing excellent service. And unlike what I’d heard elsewhere, the brisket was even acceptably tender. Not wanting to eat too much, I just ordered the combo plate of ribs, chicken and brisket, since BBQ was the thrust of my visit. Unfortunately, that left me without the ability to try the ceviche, a food that I often adore even more than sushi, and of course, the brisket chile about which I’d heard so many good things.

33.At 12:35 am on May 4th, 2007, Craig Winchell wrote:
In any case, in both cases the brisket’s texture was tender and moist, the ribs were toothsome, and the chicken on the combo plate was moist and properly cooked.

BS”D

I apologise profusely. We started out independently, with no knowledge of the other, towards having something on the order of the first kosher BBQ restaurant of renown in the USA (there having already been kosher BBQ in Dallas, Houston, evidently East Taxas, and of course, Memphis). You got there first. I have no idea what your motivation was in doing so. Mine was my love of Q, ever since a while earlier, when I realized that this beautiful stuff people were talking about was easily accessible, but only if I learned how to do it myself. Then I found other Jews in the same geographic area, with the same passion, and I reaized there are probably a lot of people out there who would love this stuff as much as me, Johnny Istrin and Ben Schuraytz. I’ve since found out I’m correct. So being unemployed, I decided to work towards the goal of a restaurant, having little enough to do in the meantime.

But, while I apologise profusely for misleading people into thinking I know what I’m talking about, the fact of the matter is I do, at least pretty much. So:

a) I’m sorry for saying your sauce has liquid smoke. To me, it has a smoke character that reminds me of liquid smoke, not of natural smoke. If it’s not liquid smoke, I guess it could be some interaction between the other stuff in the sauce and smokey peppers, smokey drippings, smokey something else, but to me it’s an artificial type of flavor (even though liquid smoke is completely natural, to me it comes across sensorily as different than wood smoke on meat). To me the smokey character in the sauce was off-putting, and masked the flavor of the meat, and it seemed to be on everything served to me and made the food taste and smell like the sauce, to the detriment of the character of the individual food. That’s why I valued the 2 items I brought home with me, because I could actually taste the meats as individuals.

b) Whether you use Rubashkin or not, I don’t care. Frankly, I probably will use Rubashkin ribs. You want some other supplier? Fine. I was not commenting on which supplier you use, but rather the fact that they seem to have 5 rib racks as standard, and they cut the meat close to the ribs. So I’m still assuming you don’t cut the meat from the rib roasts yourself, so you don’t have the sensitivity to leave more meat on the bones for your customers. But if you do cut the meat from the rib roasts yourself, then they seem to be asking for you to leave meatier bones for the BBQ ribs.

c) I had hoped that my place would be first, since I was sure that it was only a matter of time before someone would come up with the same idea, as the cuisine seemed to be getting more and more play in the media. And look- I wasn’t wrong. And you got there first, which means you had nationwide bragging rights and I didn’t. Thems the breaks. Believe it or not, I’m happy for you.

But I have every right to pontificate. I may not be a BBQ expert, but I’ve been at it longer than most people here. Furthermore, I have sensory evaluation experience, have an understanding of the chemical and physical interactions which lead to the production of various food products, in short I’m on the upper end of the food experience curve compared to most people. That gives me as much right to pontificate as it gives anyone here.

Furthermore, I had a good experience at your place, and told about that, too. And I’ve defended you, both here and on Chowhound. And yes, there were also times I haven’t been kind. What of it? Each time, I told the truth as I saw it. Note that I’m not saying I was correct in everything I said, but rather I told the truth as I saw it. So if you go through major machinations in coming up with the smokey flavor of your sauce, you may just want to try liquid smoke, because to me, that’s how it tasted.

You know, this is getting a little old for me, and probably for others as well, so I’m getting out of this thread, at least. But thanks for your wish of mazel, and I wish you the same. And I thank both Joe and Kosher Critic for the advice about toning down bold flavors- advice that I probably will not follow, but who knows? I will tone down the cayenne heat, though.

Craig,

It’s all good. When you open your place, you will be one of the few people on the planet who can understand me.
BTW, do you know the Loffman family? – they live right near you.
If you call me off line or email me, I will tell you why I ask.

B’Hotzlacha,
Joe

BS”D

I don’t know the Loffmans, but I do know the Lintz family. I saw my real estate agent in Smart and Final one day, replenishing my rub ingredients, and we happened to get into a discussion, and I happened to mention that I was starting a local BBQ joint. And she said how interesting, she’s knows someone who opened a BBQ joint in Teaneck, the brother of Rabbi Lintz’s wife. And then she started talking to me about how she’s been eating BBQ a lot over at Johnny Istrin’s, and it’s a bit too smokey for her. So I’m thinking to myself “Wow! Maybe the idea for Smokey Joe’s came about at Johnny Istrin’s when the Lintzs were there with her brother, and maybeValley Village is the focal point of BBQ in the kosher universe.” But whether or not it’s correct, there’s no question that it’s a small world, at least from a Jewish perspective.

Craig, You may mean well, but your written work reads in a mean spirited and arrogant tone. As this is a public forum, I would hope youd think about this comment as constructive critique. That said, if your BBQ is a good as your wine was, I look foward to eating it.

BS”D

Karl, you’re not the first to tell me that, and you won’t be the last, I’m sure. As to the Q, I don’t know whether it will be as good as my wine, but the goal is to have distinctive, high quality Q. If it’s no good, I’m sure I’ll get read the riot act. If it’s good, I’m sure it will be criticized as well. That’s the nature of individual taste. Just like writing style (grin).

Craig,

My last final post – I promise. I think that conceptually, you are missing it. There will be critics and their will be fans. Your bbq may remain constant (constantly good, I assume) and you will still have people who LOVE it, and people who HATE it. You have to be prpeared for this. You are dealing with a population that for centuries has traditionally eaten food with very LITTLE spice. You will have to educate them, take care of them, and share your passion for what you do.
And even then, you will not win with every customer. That is why what we do is more of a craft than an art. An artist can insist upon his solitary vision and never compromise. A craftsman genuinely wants people to enjoy his work and must adjust to the sensibilities of the market place.
Of course, there is a fine line between constantly adjusting you product to fit the needs of your clintelle and just appearing like you don’t know what you are doing.
Obviously, you want to avoid that image. But if a guest came into my restaurant and said, “I’m sorry, but this is just too spicey for me.”, I would take the dish away and bring them something they would like. In the moment in time that I have to please that guest, I would rather spend it on pleasing him or her rather than debating the relative merits of authentic bbq. That is the reason that we have other items besides smokey bbq.

Kol Tuv,
Smokey Joe

BS”D

Joe, I understand completely, believe it or not, and always have. But thanks.

FWIW, LA has more sephardim and mizrachim who have plenty of genetic experience with spices.

BS”D
Although my next-door neighbor, an Israeli, said that Israelis don’t like smoked meat, and neither do Sephardim. I’m betting they just haven’t been exposed to smoked meat served hot. It’s true that many Orientals don’t have a smoke component to their “BBQ”. For instance, Korean, Japanese and Thai and Mongolian “BBQ”s are really nothing more than marinaded (or not) grilled meat, with a volatilized grease component, but no smoke flavor per se. The Chinese do have a smoke component, but it’s not wood smoke, and it’s not part of the normal Chinese BBQ, which is more something heated to remove grease and cook the meat, then served with aromatic sauce like Hoisin. So it could well be that the Israelis/Sephardim lack cultural ties to wood smoke, and it might well be the uphill battle that he believes it will be. But I don’t think the spice will be the problem- it will be the smoke. But I know people here are keen on at least the idea of BBQ. Every steakhouse has its ribs smothered in sauce. A restaurant called “The Rib Tickler” closed after a short time, not because it was not successful, but because it was too successful- its suppliers could not provide enough ribs to satisfy the demand. Most BBQ joints provide a spectrum of meats, and are not as much rib-centric.

That sounds feasible, Craig. I was merely addressing Joe’s point about spice before, but I tend to agree with you that it’s more about smoke. In fact, what smoky BBQ I have had (in pre-kosher days) hasn’t been particularly spicy, to the best of my recollection.

My friend and I had dinner at Smokey Joe’s tonight. The food was really great. They had flavors and foods that were presented in a unique way. We shared the vegetarian chili and the tofu salad, both were super, we left stuffed. I will admit that it took a while to be waited on, it seemed more of a casual take out. They are new so perhaps they will improve on that.

I adore Smokey Joe’s. Hands down the best kosher restaurant food I’ve ever had. I feel like it’s one of the few kosher joints where I could bring non-kosher friends and family and they wouldn’t feel like they were getting ripped off by paying high (kosher) prices for sub-par food. The brisket is stellar and the grilled chicken fajitas are amazing.

My husband and I decided to try Smokey Joe’s last night. I’m very sorry to say that we did not have a good experience. The waitress was slow and inattentive. She should have waited until we were done with our appetizer (of wings) before bringing our main course. She didn’t offer us a wet wipe to cleanse our hands before moving on to our meal so we leaned over to the next table to grab some that were piled in a container. While the wings were decent, our main course of smoked ribs was so disappointing. My husband struggled to cut a piece of meat off the bone with the butter knives that were set out. Once he had a piece of meat in his mouth, he declared it to be so tough that he spit it out into his napkin. I fared a bit better with a rib that was tough, but not as tough. The problem I had was that it was way too salty. However, the underlying smokiness that I detected had a nice flavor. The waitress never came by to ask how our dinner was so we didn’t bring any of this to her attention. When we flagged her down for the check, she still didn’t inquire about our meal. We paid our bill and left. Perhaps we should have tried the chicken.

To all our fans out there, I wanted everyone to know that we will be hosting a new radio show called “Smokey Joe’s SUmemrtime Kosher Cookin’ Show” on 620 AM and webcast at talklinecommunications.com – Wednesdays at 11 PM.
It is all about bbq and grill with recipes and general discussions about technique and how to make great meals in teh summer.

We also added 35 seats to the restaurant during the Pesach holiday, so we can no waccommodate a lot more guests plus a private party.

I hope that you will both tune in to our radio show and join us for a meal at our newly expanded location.

Finally got the chance to try Joe’s out last night, after another kosher rest. on the other side of Teaneck refused to take a reservation (we were to be a party of 10, somewhat spontaneously celebrating my birthday). Joe accomodated us on less than 2 hours notice.
Quality of the food was well received. Sampled various forms of brisket and chicken, all were delish. Fried chicken went down well with the youngest, my sophisticated teen appreciated the grilled chicken sandwich with pesto. Grownups enjoyed various bbq brisket and chicken combos.
Looking forward to a return visit.

Recently had a chance to go back to Smokey Joe’s. The food was very good. Joe was there, attentive to all diners. You can now get the heat adjusted to your preference. The expanded place is roomier and the menu expanded a bit since my last visit. Service seemed a tad slow, but was not too bad really (my kids were hungary and impatient so the wait may have just seemed longer), and was certainly friendly, responsive and helpful. It would be nice if they provided more of the complimentary yummy corn bread rather than charge for refills. We like it and recommend it, even if spicy BBQ is not your thing.

Best kosher joint around! Friendly owner mingles with guests and probably one of the best servers I’ve ever had wait on me. She remembers us everytime we come in.

I am sorry to say that Smokey’s Joe’s food is horrendous and I am embarrased that I paid $40 bucks for a stale roll to go along with my mishmashed together (barely round) $13.00 hamburger and $12.00 for two tacos that tasted like cardboard to go along with a $8.00 kids burger that came out burnt so my toddler could barely chew it.

Only a kosher restaurant would have the audacity to serve and charge so much for this garbage. I want all kosher restaurants to succeed but this one deserves to go. I actually made them return the wings I ordered b/c they tasted old and the Ari’s sauce awful. A real shame but I’m looking forward to a Carlos and Gabby’s opening up which will teach “Smokey Joe” you can only serve slope and charge a fortune for so long. Utterly displeased.