Comments on: Milk Street disappoints http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/ Finding the finer side of everyday kosher living Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:40:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Meredith http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-5001 Meredith Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:15:52 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-5001 KC, you raise a valid point. I do think that the "unsolicited" nature of an industry review, as opposed to the solicitation of a personal recommendation, is the strongest argument one can make that a le'toeles industry review is de facto loshon hara. However, I'm not certain that it's enough to carry you into the endzone. I'm hoping to do some research on the loshon hara implications of industry reviews in the next few days. Hopefully, I'll be able to report back with some further material next week. KC, you raise a valid point.

I do think that the “unsolicited” nature of an industry review, as opposed to the solicitation of a personal recommendation, is the strongest argument one can make that a le’toeles industry review is de facto loshon hara. However, I’m not certain that it’s enough to carry you into the endzone.

I’m hoping to do some research on the loshon hara implications of industry reviews in the next few days. Hopefully, I’ll be able to report back with some further material next week.

]]> By: Kosher Critic http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-5000 Kosher Critic Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:01:31 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-5000 Meredith, your post raises the issue of whether unsolicited, critical reviews are ok. A restaurant review typically is not written in response to a potential customer's question and even if it were, what you have written implies that any response should be directed exclusively to the questioner, not published or posted online. I don't know the answer to this one and would be happy for a license to present my views on subpar kosher restaurants in the hopes of raising community standards. Meredith, your post raises the issue of whether unsolicited, critical reviews are ok. A restaurant review typically is not written in response to a potential customer’s question and even if it were, what you have written implies that any response should be directed exclusively to the questioner, not published or posted online. I don’t know the answer to this one and would be happy for a license to present my views on subpar kosher restaurants in the hopes of raising community standards.

]]> By: Meredith http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4999 Meredith Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:20:59 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4999 (To clarify, the above post is merely my take on the rules of loshon hara as they pertain to industry reviews. It should in no way be taken as a reflection of my thoughts on the Milk Street Cafe.) (To clarify, the above post is merely my take on the rules of loshon hara as they pertain to industry reviews. It should in no way be taken as a reflection of my thoughts on the Milk Street Cafe.)

]]> By: Meredith http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4998 Meredith Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:18:00 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4998 In general, there is no problem of loshon hara(*) with industry/product reviews so long as the critique is limited to le'toeles(**) information that may help someone avoid wasting their money. For example, if someone asks me if I think that XYZ Clothing Store sells attractive clothing because they are thinking of shopping at XYZ, I can give my honest opinion on the attractiveness of XYZ's clothing without running the risk of loshon hara. However, if I then proceed to comment on the helpfulness (or lack thereof) of XYZ's sales staff, I am no longer giving le'toeles information as the questioner did not ask me that specific question. Whatever statements I may make about XYZ's sales staff (even positive statements, according to the Chofetz Chaim) will qualify as loshon hara. I am in no position to give a definitive statement on whether any review does/does not qualify as loshon hara, but I'm hard pressed to see how Jabbett's review of Milk Street could cross the line of prohibited speech. His comments are limited to the specific dishes he sampled and don't make any sweeping generalizations beyond the scope of his personal experience. (*) Loshon hara: Derogatory speech, which is religiously prohibited. (**) Le'toeles: Necessary/pertinent. In general, there is no problem of loshon hara(*) with industry/product reviews so long as the critique is limited to le’toeles(**) information that may help someone avoid wasting their money.

For example, if someone asks me if I think that XYZ Clothing Store sells attractive clothing because they are thinking of shopping at XYZ, I can give my honest opinion on the attractiveness of XYZ’s clothing without running the risk of loshon hara. However, if I then proceed to comment on the helpfulness (or lack thereof) of XYZ’s sales staff, I am no longer giving le’toeles information as the questioner did not ask me that specific question. Whatever statements I may make about XYZ’s sales staff (even positive statements, according to the Chofetz Chaim) will qualify as loshon hara.

I am in no position to give a definitive statement on whether any review does/does not qualify as loshon hara, but I’m hard pressed to see how Jabbett’s review of Milk Street could cross the line of prohibited speech. His comments are limited to the specific dishes he sampled and don’t make any sweeping generalizations beyond the scope of his personal experience.

(*) Loshon hara: Derogatory speech, which is religiously prohibited.

(**) Le’toeles: Necessary/pertinent.

]]> By: Jenn http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4997 Jenn Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:32:30 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4997 Isn't this lashon hara? Clearly, if you are keeping kosher your must be religious to some extent. I recommend reviewing the laws of lashon hara to be sure that you aren't accidentally breaking a halacha. As far as I have learned, speaking (or typing) about a person/school/restaurant/institution is considered lashon hara. Please consider this. Isn’t this lashon hara? Clearly, if you are keeping kosher your must be religious to some extent. I recommend reviewing the laws of lashon hara to be sure that you aren’t accidentally breaking a halacha. As far as I have learned, speaking (or typing) about a person/school/restaurant/institution is considered lashon hara.
Please consider this.

]]> By: DeisCane http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4996 DeisCane Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:39:37 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4996 Nice use of big words, jabbett. Louis B would be proud. Nice use of big words, jabbett. Louis B would be proud.

]]> By: jabbett http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4995 jabbett Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:43:36 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4995 Hi, Marc-- Thanks for visiting the blog. I couldn't predict the firestorm my posting caused, but suggesting that a kosher food blog isn't the place for open discussion of kosher food is like saying the New York Times shouldn't do restaurant reviews. In contrast to the unsubstantiated accusation a couple comments above (which will be removed in the interest of intellectual honesty), your forthrightness is commendable. The Kosher Blog encourages all readers to act likewise, and take advantage of your contact information to resolve any concerns. Hi, Marc– Thanks for visiting the blog. I couldn’t predict the firestorm my posting caused, but suggesting that a kosher food blog isn’t the place for open discussion of kosher food is like saying the New York Times shouldn’t do restaurant reviews.

In contrast to the unsubstantiated accusation a couple comments above (which will be removed in the interest of intellectual honesty), your forthrightness is commendable. The Kosher Blog encourages all readers to act likewise, and take advantage of your contact information to resolve any concerns.

]]> By: Marc Epstein http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4994 Marc Epstein Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:21:00 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4994 Hello, I am the owner of the Cafe. This is the first time I have visited the site. I want to apologize to anyone who has not had a wonderful experience at the Cafes. Please feel free to approach anyone in the Cafe if you are not fully satisfied or call me, Marc Epstein, directly at 617 542-3663. I must be honest and admit that a blog such as this is not the appropriate way to correct a problem. Hello, I am the owner of the Cafe. This is the first time I have visited the site.
I want to apologize to anyone who has not had a wonderful experience at the Cafes. Please feel free to approach anyone in the Cafe if you are not fully satisfied or call me, Marc Epstein, directly at 617 542-3663.
I must be honest and admit that a blog such as this is not the appropriate way to correct a problem.

]]> By: Newtonian http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4993 Newtonian Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:05:59 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4993 I eat at Milk Street almost every day, I have for several years, and I contest that the food is consistently very good. On the rare occasion where I have an issue with something, the management has always been extremely responsive to provide refunds and alternatives. The restaurant is an absolutely essential piece of working in downtown Boston and observing kashruth. I eat at Milk Street almost every day, I have for several years, and I contest that the food is consistently very good.

On the rare occasion where I have an issue with something, the management has always been extremely responsive to provide refunds and alternatives.

The restaurant is an absolutely essential piece of working in downtown Boston and observing kashruth.

]]> By: seePea http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4992 seePea Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:12:14 +0000 http://www.kosherblog.net/2007/01/17/milk-street-disappoints/#comment-4992 I do not even bother with asparagus, broccoli or cauliflower anymore and haven't for years. Heavy pesticides have their bad side but they did keep bugs away. I do not even bother with asparagus, broccoli or cauliflower anymore and haven’t for years. Heavy pesticides have their bad side but they did keep bugs away.

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