<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: FAQ: Is Kosher Meat Better?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/</link>
	<description>Finding the finer side of everyday kosher living</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4097</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4097</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments Carol. I'll keep them in mind while I eat the brisket left over from the second seder. I prepared it with a rub of spices including cayenne pepper, cinnamon, coriander, cumin, honey and black pepper. It was roasted with leeks and dried apricots in a red wine sauce. It was delicious. You can find the recipe here at epicurious.com
http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/234425
I'm with Craig. Shechita is ultimately a process that generates meat for carnivores to consume. It's irrelevant to me to discuss how much more or less humane it is. It is simply what we believe to be G-d's instruction intepreted by our Sages on how to prepare meat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments Carol. I&#8217;ll keep them in mind while I eat the brisket left over from the second seder. I prepared it with a rub of spices including cayenne pepper, cinnamon, coriander, cumin, honey and black pepper. It was roasted with leeks and dried apricots in a red wine sauce. It was delicious. You can find the recipe here at epicurious.com<br />
<a href="http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/234425" rel="nofollow">http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/234425</a><br />
I&#8217;m with Craig. Shechita is ultimately a process that generates meat for carnivores to consume. It&#8217;s irrelevant to me to discuss how much more or less humane it is. It is simply what we believe to be G-d&#8217;s instruction intepreted by our Sages on how to prepare meat.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig Winchell</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4096</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Winchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 09:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4096</guid>
		<description>BS"D

I don't think that anyone claimed the animal loses consciousness immediately upon shechita.   Nevertheless, a properly rendered throat-cutting leaves the animal halachically dead, as far as I know, even if it may have be conscious.  Just as a beheaded person's head must retain consciousness for some period of time, yet the person is halachically dead.  It may serve the industry's purpose to do things according to  methods endorsed by Temple Grandin or for that matter, Dr. Doolittle, but it's still just generating meat for me to sink my teeth into.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BS&#8221;D</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that anyone claimed the animal loses consciousness immediately upon shechita.   Nevertheless, a properly rendered throat-cutting leaves the animal halachically dead, as far as I know, even if it may have be conscious.  Just as a beheaded person&#8217;s head must retain consciousness for some period of time, yet the person is halachically dead.  It may serve the industry&#8217;s purpose to do things according to  methods endorsed by Temple Grandin or for that matter, Dr. Doolittle, but it&#8217;s still just generating meat for me to sink my teeth into.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carol Ann Varley</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4095</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Ann Varley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4095</guid>
		<description>To write the animal is instantly unconsious after the throat cut is untrue; there is great variablity in onset of unconsciousness, particularly in cattle and calves.  Occlusion or ballooning in arteries causes delays in bleeding and there may be additional cuts required to increase bleeding time.  Unconsciousness may be delayed for up to several minutes. There are many variables: the swiftness or slowness of the knife cut, the skill of the slaughterer, the level of excitement of the animal, the tendancy in some animals for their arteries to occlude.  For more facts on this issue go to Dr. Temple Grandin's website.  In her study there were no animals that collapsed instantaneously; the shortest time was 8 seconds in the "best" plant and the longest was two minutes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To write the animal is instantly unconsious after the throat cut is untrue; there is great variablity in onset of unconsciousness, particularly in cattle and calves.  Occlusion or ballooning in arteries causes delays in bleeding and there may be additional cuts required to increase bleeding time.  Unconsciousness may be delayed for up to several minutes. There are many variables: the swiftness or slowness of the knife cut, the skill of the slaughterer, the level of excitement of the animal, the tendancy in some animals for their arteries to occlude.  For more facts on this issue go to Dr. Temple Grandin&#8217;s website.  In her study there were no animals that collapsed instantaneously; the shortest time was 8 seconds in the &#8220;best&#8221; plant and the longest was two minutes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rachmiel</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4094</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachmiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4094</guid>
		<description>Wise Kosher Chicken (which is both kosher and organic) is by far the best chicken I have ever eaten, and in fact has "made" me more observant because I can't bear the thought of eating a non-kosher "non-Wise" chicken these days. It's true that it is far more expensive than other chicken (both kohser and non-kosher) but seems to me to be worth it if used sparingly in soup or to compliment a dish. The problem is getting it -- at least here in Chicago, where only  few Whole Foods stores have it, and the few that do seldom carry it non-frozen, often forcing us fans to order it in advance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wise Kosher Chicken (which is both kosher and organic) is by far the best chicken I have ever eaten, and in fact has &#8220;made&#8221; me more observant because I can&#8217;t bear the thought of eating a non-kosher &#8220;non-Wise&#8221; chicken these days. It&#8217;s true that it is far more expensive than other chicken (both kohser and non-kosher) but seems to me to be worth it if used sparingly in soup or to compliment a dish. The problem is getting it &#8212; at least here in Chicago, where only  few Whole Foods stores have it, and the few that do seldom carry it non-frozen, often forcing us fans to order it in advance.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig Winchell</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4093</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Winchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4093</guid>
		<description>BS"D

The Torah tells us to slaughter the animals in the manner G-d prescribes, without ever telling us what that manner is, leading to the conclusion that there was an oral tradition brought down at the same time as the written Torah.  Not all fats are prohibited, and the marbling and white fats are permitted.  Finally, you're correct that not all blood is removed by "bleeding out" from the shechita, which is why there's also nikur, which is removal of the forbidden parts, which includes large blood vessels which may contain pooled blood.  Blood left in the meat after the soaking and salting is defined as "juice", not "blood", and the soaking and salting is done after vessels are removed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BS&#8221;D</p>
<p>The Torah tells us to slaughter the animals in the manner G-d prescribes, without ever telling us what that manner is, leading to the conclusion that there was an oral tradition brought down at the same time as the written Torah.  Not all fats are prohibited, and the marbling and white fats are permitted.  Finally, you&#8217;re correct that not all blood is removed by &#8220;bleeding out&#8221; from the shechita, which is why there&#8217;s also nikur, which is removal of the forbidden parts, which includes large blood vessels which may contain pooled blood.  Blood left in the meat after the soaking and salting is defined as &#8220;juice&#8221;, not &#8220;blood&#8221;, and the soaking and salting is done after vessels are removed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard A Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4092</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard A Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 19:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4092</guid>
		<description>Please indulge me. Where in torah does it lay out the precise method of slaughter? Or is this Talmud, subject to much debate and change. I dare say that the carefullest and most precise cut will only extract most, but not all of the blood which I pressume was the intent of ha shem. And for the record marble is fat. Where do we draw the line?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please indulge me. Where in torah does it lay out the precise method of slaughter? Or is this Talmud, subject to much debate and change. I dare say that the carefullest and most precise cut will only extract most, but not all of the blood which I pressume was the intent of ha shem. And for the record marble is fat. Where do we draw the line?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig Winchell</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4091</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Winchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 18:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4091</guid>
		<description>BS"D

To my knowledge, that's not a Torah concept, or a Jewish concept in general.  That doesn't mean it's not admirable to consider things such as that, or that it's inconsistent with the Torah.  That just means that the Torah gives us guidelines for holiness, and we keep kopsher to be holy for our G-d, not to be spiritual.  But if spirituality can help you in solidifying the concept of holiness, by all means be spiritual.  In general, we become holy by performing mitzvos and refraining from aveiros, as they're understood, and if we require sprituality, we get it through prayer.  But I suppose anything one does to connect with G-d is OK as long as it isn't inconsistent with Torah.  So to answer your questions, 1)  Being spiritually aware is not what we're trying to do- we're trying to be holy, 2)  I don't think the halachos of kashrus say anything about this,but kashrus is of course subjective, reflecting only the Torah perspective 3) the primary concern has nothing to do with either animals' or peoples' lives, but rather with sanctifying G-d.  In that, we're given the guidelines.  As long as we follow these guidelines, anything else we do is ok.  From a tzar baalei chayim standpoint, we're worried about the life of the animal in the context of using the animal.  From a kashrus standpoint, we're worried about the death of the animal, that it was done properly according to Jewish law, that the animal be neither treif nor neveilah, and that the animal have a minimal standard of health so that their are few lesions or adhesions which would make the meat unfit for our food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BS&#8221;D</p>
<p>To my knowledge, that&#8217;s not a Torah concept, or a Jewish concept in general.  That doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s not admirable to consider things such as that, or that it&#8217;s inconsistent with the Torah.  That just means that the Torah gives us guidelines for holiness, and we keep kopsher to be holy for our G-d, not to be spiritual.  But if spirituality can help you in solidifying the concept of holiness, by all means be spiritual.  In general, we become holy by performing mitzvos and refraining from aveiros, as they&#8217;re understood, and if we require sprituality, we get it through prayer.  But I suppose anything one does to connect with G-d is OK as long as it isn&#8217;t inconsistent with Torah.  So to answer your questions, 1)  Being spiritually aware is not what we&#8217;re trying to do- we&#8217;re trying to be holy, 2)  I don&#8217;t think the halachos of kashrus say anything about this,but kashrus is of course subjective, reflecting only the Torah perspective 3) the primary concern has nothing to do with either animals&#8217; or peoples&#8217; lives, but rather with sanctifying G-d.  In that, we&#8217;re given the guidelines.  As long as we follow these guidelines, anything else we do is ok.  From a tzar baalei chayim standpoint, we&#8217;re worried about the life of the animal in the context of using the animal.  From a kashrus standpoint, we&#8217;re worried about the death of the animal, that it was done properly according to Jewish law, that the animal be neither treif nor neveilah, and that the animal have a minimal standard of health so that their are few lesions or adhesions which would make the meat unfit for our food.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4090</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4090</guid>
		<description>Surely it is a Torah-true concept that we effect our cells and the world around us with conscious thought. Surely therefore it is true that a misused, badly treated, dirty, badly fed animal will produce spiritually unclean meat. When you eat that animal, you are consuming it's history. Surely then we should be deeply concerned about the animal's conditions if we are to consume it?

So I would like to ask a couple of questions, for the opinionated and knowledgeable to comment on:

1-Is this not the essence of being spiritually aware and using common sense in looking to consume healthy meat?
2-Does kashrus say anything about this, or is it subjective?
3-Is the primarly concern about an animal's life, or an animal's death?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely it is a Torah-true concept that we effect our cells and the world around us with conscious thought. Surely therefore it is true that a misused, badly treated, dirty, badly fed animal will produce spiritually unclean meat. When you eat that animal, you are consuming it&#8217;s history. Surely then we should be deeply concerned about the animal&#8217;s conditions if we are to consume it?</p>
<p>So I would like to ask a couple of questions, for the opinionated and knowledgeable to comment on:</p>
<p>1-Is this not the essence of being spiritually aware and using common sense in looking to consume healthy meat?<br />
2-Does kashrus say anything about this, or is it subjective?<br />
3-Is the primarly concern about an animal&#8217;s life, or an animal&#8217;s death?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig Winchell</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4089</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Winchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4089</guid>
		<description>BS"D

Debeaking is designed to eliminate cannibalism from flocks of egg-layers, due to the fact that egg laying varieties often exhibit extreme cannibalism, while it has largely been eliminated from meat varieties of chickens.  See Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debeaking .  Just as with the specialization of cattle varieties for milk or meat production, chicken varieties are specialized as well into laying varieties and meat varieties.  So when one makes arguments about slaughter varieties based upon practice in egg production, the argument is ludicrous.  And when one makes arguments about beef production based upon practices in veal production, the arguments become ludicrous.  And when one makes film productions about production of one product using images specific to another product, the arguments promoted in the films become invalid.  These people are playing to emotion rather than intellect.  It's their right, but I don't need to buy into their positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BS&#8221;D</p>
<p>Debeaking is designed to eliminate cannibalism from flocks of egg-layers, due to the fact that egg laying varieties often exhibit extreme cannibalism, while it has largely been eliminated from meat varieties of chickens.  See Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debeaking" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debeaking</a> .  Just as with the specialization of cattle varieties for milk or meat production, chicken varieties are specialized as well into laying varieties and meat varieties.  So when one makes arguments about slaughter varieties based upon practice in egg production, the argument is ludicrous.  And when one makes arguments about beef production based upon practices in veal production, the arguments become ludicrous.  And when one makes film productions about production of one product using images specific to another product, the arguments promoted in the films become invalid.  These people are playing to emotion rather than intellect.  It&#8217;s their right, but I don&#8217;t need to buy into their positions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig Winchell</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2006/11/02/faq-is-kosher-meat-better/#comment-4088</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Winchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/?p=968#comment-4088</guid>
		<description>BS"D

Howard, beef cattle are not raised in cages.  In feedlot farming, they're raised in large pens, with plenty of room to get around, becaue after all, all of the cattle need to get to the feeding station.  There's plenty of food and water, and extra water when the weather is hot.  There are salt licks to keep up electolyte concentration.  There is regular veterinary inspection and if necessary, intervention.  There is range living during a portion of their lives.  Remember, we're talking beef cattle here, not veal.  Of course, how many cattle die terrible deaths on the free range, either from starvation or thirst or other exposure?  Which is more kind- to give the animals plenty to eat on the feedlot or to leave them to their own devices on the range?  Survival is easier and better assured on the feedlot.  Cattle may not get much exercise, though.  Then again, even on the range, all they do is stand in one spot and eat and poop, and occasionally lie down.  In a cow's life, there really ain't much difference between the 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BS&#8221;D</p>
<p>Howard, beef cattle are not raised in cages.  In feedlot farming, they&#8217;re raised in large pens, with plenty of room to get around, becaue after all, all of the cattle need to get to the feeding station.  There&#8217;s plenty of food and water, and extra water when the weather is hot.  There are salt licks to keep up electolyte concentration.  There is regular veterinary inspection and if necessary, intervention.  There is range living during a portion of their lives.  Remember, we&#8217;re talking beef cattle here, not veal.  Of course, how many cattle die terrible deaths on the free range, either from starvation or thirst or other exposure?  Which is more kind- to give the animals plenty to eat on the feedlot or to leave them to their own devices on the range?  Survival is easier and better assured on the feedlot.  Cattle may not get much exercise, though.  Then again, even on the range, all they do is stand in one spot and eat and poop, and occasionally lie down.  In a cow&#8217;s life, there really ain&#8217;t much difference between the 2.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
