Kosher Blog

At least they’re upfront about it. I’ve seen places offering food for shabbat or Passover without hechsher, and they don’t offer the information that their food is nonkosher unless you ask.

Where is that?

Sigh. Glad the goyim like our food so much. I’m always a bit weirded out by “kosher-style” food too.

Sadly, this is a sign of the times (pun intended). So many Jewish families don’t keep Kosher anymore that it’s not surprising to see something like this, even in a Jewish neighborhood. Ah well..

BTW, looks like it’s in the Boston ‘burbs:
Acton
Bridgewater
Burlington
Easton
Marshfield
Mashpee
Millis
Natick
Needham
Norton
Quincy
Wellesley
West Roxbury
Westwood

I think it’s nice that families get together for shabbat dinner, whether it’s kosher or not. I would certainly not sigh!

The sign’s from the Sudbury Farms supermarket in Randolph (a Roche Bros. subsidiary).

That’s a good point, Ruth.

Here in the Metro NYC area, Balduccis published a very slick brochure listing all their “holiday” offerings. At one point, the brochure lists:
“And while all of our holiday food is fabulous, it is not in fact Kosher.” Yikes!

I had a very long e-mail exchange with a Whole Foods representative regarding this issue around Pesach. I tried to be polite and only asked that they _prominantly_ mention the foods were not kosher for Passover. They did do this the following year (and increased their kosher for Passover offerings), and I made sure to write them a thank you note.

Perhaps something like this would be appropriate for Roche Bros. The Ferengi print at the top of this ad isn’t enough: http://www.rochebros.com/dynamiccontent.aspx?loc=80&menuid=18

Comments can be submitted at http://www.rochebros.com/aboutUsContact.aspx?loc=31&menuid=4&pmenuId=1

Shana Tova u’Metuka,

Adam

Is it wrong to be amused so much by this? It reminds me of growing up in Kansas & seeing LOAVES of RYE BREAD that had printed on it: ‘Kosher for Passover’. Um, ‘kay…. How Reformed do you have to be to even THINK that would fly?

I have a recurring fantasy, where, in the dark of night, dressed all in black, I sneak up to the shingle of the “Best JEWISH Delicatessen” in Boston and put duct tape over the word “JEWISH”, as they are completly treif, and are open for Yom Kippur with ham on the menu.

I have a photo from ten years ago from a deli in Virginia Beach. The deli has a name like “Fabulous Jewish Deli” and the sandwichboard out front is showing the day’s special - ham and swiss on rye.

In response to steven@RK above (#11), actually rye bread might be kosher for Passover (at least theoretically). No one really accepts this today l’halakha, but oats and possibly rye are not among the 5 species of grain which can become prohibited on Passover. These include wheat, spelt (actually a type of wheat), and barley. The other 2 species are not easily identifiable by name. Historically, some Rabbis have identified them as rye and oats, but historians/biologists dispute this because these species were not available in the Middle East in Biblical or Talmudic times. Particularly oats, which are not even closely related to wheat or barley and contain significantly less gluten, are likely not to be on the list. The last 2 species are probably different types of wheat and/or barley.
In any case, because eating hamets on Pesah is a serious Biblical transgression, most authorities are strict and will tell you not to eat rye or oats on Pesah, nor any other related species. Nevertheless, allowing loaves of rye bread on Passover is a tenable position.

BS”D

Ari:

Do you know of *any* orthodox rabbis who have allowed rye and/or oats for Pesach? Have there been *any* in the last 3 generations? I think that even if anyone can be found who supports this position, it can be argued that by now it is at least a minhag Yisroel, having the strength of halacha, not to use these grains. Not using them seems to be accepted both by Ashkenazim and Sephardim. Sure, the exact meaning of the Hebrew is lost in antiquity, but the prohibition itself is biblical, so questions concerning it would be determined stringently rather leniently, and it might well be halachically invalid nowadays to do otherwise, so despite what you say, I’m not sure it’s a tenable position.

Rye bread is made from a mixture of rye and wheat flour. So even if rye were not one of the five grains, rye bread would be chametz.

I’d like a cite, if possible, on the claim that rye’s status as one of the 5 grains has been challenged. I know that oats’ status is very doubtful, and it’s probably not one of the 5 grains despite Rashi’s translation of shibolet shual as avena; but I’ve never heard that about rye, which is closely related to wheat and barley.

I don’t know of any Orthodox rabbis who allowed rye and/or oats on Pesach, although apparently, “Moshe Shternbauch in Teshuvot veHanhagot I:302 wrote that one who is gluten-intolerant is exempt from the obligation to eat matzah and since oats are not one of the five grains, eating oat matzah does not fulfill someone’s obligation.” http://menachemmendel.blogspot.com/2006/03/oat-matzah.html
Also, Rabbi Abadi indicates that rye is questionable at least. http://www.kashrut.org/orum/viewpost.asp?mid=2988&highlight=5%20grains

In any case, just because you or I wouldn’t follow a position doesn’t mean that it isn’t tenable.

Milhouse — The best cite I can give you right now for rye not being one of the grains is:
http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v23/mj_v23i65.html#CTK
where rye is not listed as one of the 5 grains. I have seen this in many other places over the years, but I can’t find them right now. Nevertheless, I agree with you that rye is related to wheat and barley, and thus there is a good chance that it is to be included in the listing of the 5 grains, but I just wanted to point out that there is some doubt about that.

And, you are right: “rye bread” does usually have wheat flour — I forgot about that. But a rye bread could be made with pure rye, such as most pumpernickel.

Well, the M-J poster says that kusmin is something called “rice wheat”, but a web search doesn’t come up with any such thing. There are lots of kinds of wheat, but none of them appear to be called “rice wheat”. Which leads me to suspect that the M-J poster, or his source, mistranslated Felix’s original Hebrew.

Maybe it was rice flour?

No, rice is either orez or dochan, both of which are definitely not in the 5 grains. Kusmin is definitely closely related to wheat - which rye is, and rice isn’t.

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