Choosing Frum Appliances
My wife and I closed on a condominium this week, and given the scheduling of the purchase and length of our current lease, we’ll have a couple months to get the new place in shape before we move. Given my affinity for the kitchen, we’ll be replacing some of the appliances. I started by consulting the Star-K appliance guide, and visiting each manufacturer’s website to collect information on their approved models. I laid the data out in an Excel spreadsheet for easy comparison. Here’s what we’ve chosen so far:
OVENS
The kitchen has an existing electric oven and microwave built into a 27″-wide wall space, but the oven is of a certain, older ilk that does not make wise use of its overall volume. The insulation around the oven cavity is substantial, and thus, the interior cooking dimensions are quite small. Luckily, manufacturers are doing good things with 27″ wall ovens these days, and offer substantially more cubic feet of interior volume.
Because all major U.S. manufacturers offer “Sabbath” modes in select models, our search is a bit easier, though Sabbath-compliant features vary from brand to brand. The Sabbath mode will typically disable any automatic 12-hour shut-off; disable beeps, digital displays, and interior lights; and sometimes allow the temperature to be changed indiscriminately on yom tov. On models with that last feature, it’s quite preferable to have a numeric panel to punch in temperatures (3-2-5) rather than a dial or up/down arrows that leave you guessing what the temperature is. (Certainly, over the course of the year, we don’t do an incredible amount of cooking on yom tov, so it’s not such a big deal.)
With plenty of religiously-sensitive models out there, we’re mainly left to choose from plenty of other nifty features that vary from one model to the next, like fully extendable racks (Dacor), temperature-probe cooking (Dacor, GE), convection (all brands, some models), self-cleaning cycle (all brands, most models), hidden bottom heat elements (most brands), and more.
In terms of our priorities, we definitely want a self-cleaning model, convection would be ideal, color isn’t so important, and temperature-probe cooking might be nice. Oh, and price: the simplest double-oven models (sans accouterments) start at around $1,300 MSRP and climb considerably higher, but actual retail prices can be much lower than MSRP depending on a variety of factors.
With all this in mind, and our spreadsheet in front of us, we quickly settled on the Frigidaire GLEB27T9DB. It has convection in both ovens, a numeric input panel, self-cleaning, and a bevy of other features. The Sabbath mode on this model is such that the temperature may be changed at any time on yom tov. Its MSRP is $1,749, but a Boston-area appliance supplier gave us a price of $1,249.
Wanting to see one in person, we visited our local EXPO Design Center, where we were told that they no longer carry Frigidaire products because they’re the “Yugo” of the appliance industry: less expensive, but poor quality. Dejected and confused, I decided to consult my parents on their recent appliance purchases. Turns out they have Frigidaire ovens, a Frigidaire cooktop, and a Frigidaire fridge, and they’re very happy with each of them.
Choice made!
COOKTOP
This choice was much easier, because I have peculiar tastes. The kitchen already has a perfectly useable five-burner gas cooktop, but since the condo has no porch or other outdoor space suitable for grilling, I really wanted a cooktop with a grill. And Dacor makes the perfect product. Four burners and a 10,000 BTU gas grill all in one, model SGM464GG. The Star-K approval was reassuring, and as a further nod to proper kosher use, Dacor sells a stainless-steel cover for when the grill is not in use to prevent dairy splashes from treyfing up the fleishig surface. The cooktop retails for about $1,200; nothing to sneeze at, but much cheaper than the “commercial-style” burner/grill combinations from Viking and Wolf. Plus, if we sells our existing appliances through the Want-Ads or Craig’s List, we can recoup some of the expenditures.
DISHWASHER
No research done yet. Recommendations welcome.
Can I come over and cook for you? Pleeeeeeeease?
(mazal tov on the condo!)
I do not remember the brand, but my parents have a cool dishwasher — fits in the space of a single dishwasher, but is actually 2 separate drawers, so you can use one each for milichig and fleishig. Due to good engineering/design, each drawer is about 2/3 the size of a regular dishwasher. So depending on kitchen space, and how many people you usually cook for, this might be a good option. It even has special “shabbos settings.”
Look into the GE Trivection oven - it’s on our list to buy when we redo our kitchen.
http://www.geappliances.com/trivection/
THE DISHWASHER IS PROBABLY A FISHER/PAYKEL. we have one and it is great.
I’m familiar with the F&P dual-drawer dishwasher, and I’m also familiar with it’s pricetag, which is typically over twice the cost of a run-of-the-mill Maytag or GE dishwasher. Its time-delay washing sounds great for Shabbat, but I’ll look into putting a regular dishwasher on a timer before breaking the bank.
For those looking for an interesting article about this stuff, please see this article from November’s “Wired” magazine: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.11/kosher.html.
I am spoiled! I have two Miele dishwashers and they’re great. The controls are not visible, there is a flat silverware rack on the top, and you can even add dishwasher salt to soften the water if it is hard. It also adjusts well and holds a huge amount of plates (or pots). You can also run a “top only” cycle if you don’t have a lot of dishes. The price tag is on the high end, though.
I have the Frigidare Shabbos Star K approved oven/cooktop. We love it, we have had for about two years, but we still have not figured out how to use the Yom Tov feature. But the Shabbos feature is great. We normally warm up the food before shabbos, and right before candle lighting we turn off the oven, turn on the Shabbos mode, and the food is still nice and warm when I get home from Shul.
I would also love input on current model dishwashers.
Issues for me are: ability to run on a timer and potential ability to kasher for passover (with separate racks). Star-K is of no help because they informed me that their posek does not permit use with a timer for shabbat or kashering (at least for gender changes, and based on the reasoning provided, this would apply to pesach). They will not research these key issues, so we are on our own…
When shopping several years ago, we ended up with low end (non-electronic control) Whirpool models which had a built in delay feature. These were hooked up to a hardwired timer (we used an X-10 based timer system). These (we bought 2) were chosen because with the powerline timer was “power off,” we could set the cycle on delay and then open and close the door as often as needed. When the external timer switched on in the middle of the night (recommended by my Rabbi so we were less likely to hear it–low end dishwashers are noisy), the internal delay cycle would resume. We rarely if ever used the feature as it turned out, but it was nice to know it was there. These models were not, by the way, kasherable for pesach.
Many more sophisticated models, while having better features included silent operation and better cleaning, did not work for us because when there was a “power loss/restore” (ie, when the external timer cycled off and then back on), the dishwasher would reset–that is, it would not resume the program input before shabbat.
Using the built-in timer/delay by itself would not be acceptable, since opening and closing a door with the power on and a cycle programmed will open/close a circuit according to all the manufacturers I consulted at the time, precluding loading dishes on Shabbat/Yom Tov.
The key question to ask manufacturers:
-what happens when there is a power failure? Can you program a cycle, have a power failure (ie put it on a timer, cycle to off), restore power (cycle timer on) and will the dishwasher resume the program? If so, you are in business. If not, or if there is no Shabbat mode that disables the door circuit (though I don’t see how unless it is a gramma switch, since the dishwasher HAS to know that the door is closed before starting), it cannot be used on Shabbat.
As for kashering, ask your LOR.
Note that many or most diswashers are hard wired, so special timers are needed unless you are handy with wiring. By the way, I will be leaving X-10 behind in my new house and switching to Z-wave which is a more reliable central timer based system for controling lights and appliances.
convection ovens lose interior cooking space. a big disappointment when my big cookie sheets wouldn’t fit.
as for dishwashers….stainless steel interior, not porcelain. my friend only buys bosch-she says it’s the quietest one around.
As a little update (mostly for personal documentation, not that anyone really cares), we’ll be ordering a simple GE dishwasher that should cost around $400, and it’s quite quiet (despite the reasonable price tag and American design). In fact, I prefer to buy American whenever possible, which is why I passed on a similar (foreign-manufactured) Maytag model.
The timer/delay issue, what with modern electronics, looks like too much trouble for relatively little use.
As for stainless interiors — the main appeal is aesthetics. People with hard water buy stainless dishwashers so they won’t discolor over time. Where we live, that’s not a problem. Plus, since we’re buying it new, it doesn’t matter if we can kasher it.
OK, I’ll admit I’ve got appliance envy reading the post about the Dacor cooktop. But aside from admitting that bit of self incriminating evidence, I have to say I find myself concerned about the trend toward “doubles” in kitchen appliances. Double ovens are great in terms of versatility; they are not, however, in any way, shape, or form required for a kosher home. Same deal for sinks: the more, the merrier from a chef’s standpoint, but not required for kashruth.
Many folks with kosher homes have concerns about a single dishwasher; the rabbis have argued this one over pretty well. For me, a check search on that term at kashrut.org leads me to agree that soap is an effective nullifying agent. But I’m just bitter because our current kitchen has no room for a built-in dishwasher…
-Nathan
A dishwasher doesn’t only wash dishes, it’s also a place for storing dirty dishes before they are washed. I won’t get into the kashrut issue which I didn’t research much. If you have only one you need to store all the dishes of the gender you are not washing, while waiting for the cycle to finish (and according to some, run an empty cycle in the middle). With our large family we installed two.
What about refridgerators? Anyone have a recommendation for a cheap fridge with shabbos mode?
I’m not sure if I have found a solution to the dishwasher problem on not. I have an idea but as of yet not found a way to test it. Bosch manufactures a dishwasher that has a power switch connected to the handle. When the door is closed the power switch needs to be pressed and the dishwasher will turn on. I believe that if this were done using a timer system one could set the dishwasher while the power supply was off and when the power was restored the dishwasher would start. But I need to find someone who either has access to a live (current) model in order to test it. If it works could it then be loaded and reloaded as many times as you wanted as long as the power was set to be turned on once per day. The model numbers for Bosch that I think might work would begin with SHU or SHX. would love to get some replie on this matter by anyone who might help.
Pease please, Refridgerators are a real uk problem. LED temp displays, door open lights in and outside, internal fans and compressors on closing etc.
Doeas anyone have an incling of makes and models of largish family fridges that are kosher?
checkout this oven http://www.tmio.com/ it is expensive but very cool. It is a oven and a frig and has email, and shabbos/ yom tov mode.
We have a Gaggeneau dishwasher (same basic controls and innards as Bosch) with digital controls that recently broke and required a new control board.
In the process of replacing the control board (I like to do that type of stuff), I added a switch to bypass the handle lock and enable Shabbat usage.
Note that bypassing the switch is necessary for Shabbat use for several reasons:
1. If not bypassed then opening/closing the switch turns on and off the electronic panel and display.
2. After the cycle is finished, the LED message resets when the door is opened.
3. Finally, you can’t just use a timer on the circuit since the machine resets when power is shut off.
I used a SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw) switch rather than just bypassing the switch so that in “Shabbos mode” there is no current running through the switch. Technically, this seemed better than just bypassing the switch in parallel since then closing and opening the door would still change the current through that leg of the circuit even if the panel status didn’t change. Also, I was careful to use the right gauge wire, make secure electrical connections, insulate any connections from errant hands and metal parts, etc. I also used spade connectors and mounted the switch on the underside of the door (which is “open”) so that this mod can be fully reversed if we ever sell the house.
Before Shabbat, I can now flip the switch to the bypass mode and set the time delay to go off in the middle of the night.
The only CAUTION is that with the switch bypassed, the dishwasher will go on and start spraying water whether or not the door is closed so you have to be REALLY careful to remember to close the door securely even if you are tired Friday night(obviously).
Also, I am considering covering the switches with some removeable painter’s tape (or something else more finished)so that one doesn’t forget and accidentally change the settings on Shabbat.
We have two low-end Dishwashers (GE, I think) that are purely mechanical, and they are on separate, external, in-the-wall 7-day timers. This ensures that when the timer is off, there is NO power to the dishwasher at all. It is just a big box. (The cheap 24 hour timers maintain a very small current through the device and are therefore unacceptable.)
Not that some opinions forbid running the dishwasher with friday night dishes if they are not to be used on Shabbat Lunch. (i.e. preparing for motzei shabbat on shabbat). Simple answer - don’t lock the DW, it won’t run. Close it motzei Shabbat.
These are a gift on “3-day” yom tovim. We entertain alot, and the dishes go in the box dirty, and come out clean.
The fridge problem is simple for us - we tape the switches every friday.