Kosher Blog

Well, there you have it: an “explanation” for why OU seems to have no problem with the video section in which a bored Hasid kicks blood into the face of dying cattle lying on the killing floor. It’s not cruel - it’s for food, heck maybe it’s sport, and Steven Plaut says Torah teaches us that’s just fine! Wait, I know: my shul’s Sifrei Torah must have been written from a different codex than Plaut’s…

The belief that kosher animal raising and slaughter was ethical was a strong reason for leading my wife and I back into meat eating years ago. We won’t let the corruption of large kashruth agencies or lunatics like Plaut redefine what we clearly see as God’s marching order’s for Jews, and arguably all humanity (Noahide Laws) concerning the reasonable treatment of the animals we eat.

BS”D

Well, Nathan, think what you like, but Plaut is largely accurate as far as halacha. In halacha and in practice, however, cruelty is minimized, as is pain, but pain is inflicted nonetheless. I’m more worried as to the quality of meat. Why is it that in USDA plants such as Agriprocessors, USDA grading is rarely performed? I’d like my meat at least choice, but it seems that most of the meat is standard and tough. Nobody seems too concerned over the quality of beef these days, but it’s pretty crappy compared to what I grew up with. Why is it that the beef from 30 years ago was more tender and more flavorful? I think because much of the meat was graded back then, and little of it is now.

Craig Winchell
GAN EDEN Wines

“Well, Nathan, think what you like, but Plaut is largely accurate as far as halacha.”

Clearly not everyone agrees with that statement, Craig. Let’s not start believing anyone who assesses the schita situation problematic ignorant (or Nazi’s like Agriprocessors). I’m not qualified to argue the halacha, and I know nothing of your qualifications in that area (no slander indended, just an honest statement), but then again, when is the last time “everyone” agreed on anything related to kashruth?

“I’m more worried as to the quality of meat.”

A serious suggestion: spend some time reading Temple Grandin’s site and learn why treating the cattle well before and during slaughter produces more tender meat. Tender meat is good. See - we do agree about something. Perhaps Torah taught us this a long time ago; sometimes we don’t see the forest for the trees.

Nathan:

After some thought, I’ve decided to give in to my urges and to respond to your post. First of all, let me say that your “Nazi’s like Agriprocessors” statement betrays your agenda and your lack of understanding of the situation. Such ill-conceived verbiage serves to undermine any legitimate argument you might have been able to make had you attempted to. Second, I do have some credentials to my name, though none as a posek, rabbi or shochet. I’ve seen and participated in shechita,I have toyed with the idea of becoming a shochet, and I have had enough interest as to have learned about the issues involved in this current PR fiasco. If you wish to discuss it, you’d do well to study the issues as well. Third, regarding tenderness of meat, I’m not discussing the type of toughness which comes from rigor-mortis, which can be alleviated by aging of meat. I’m specifically discussing the type of toughness which comes from improper marbling of the meat. While Temple Grandin may or may not have reasonable suggestions as to the mitigation of rigormortis (and consequent increased tenderness), I would rather aged beef anyway, for the flavor profile which develops. Nothing that Temple Grandin has said has addressed the tenderness of well marbled beef.

Craig,

First, you may be misunderstanding my tone in this case. The “Nazi” comment was intended to be darkly humorous and ironic - it was Agriprocessors spokesman that first invoked the dreaded word in the first broadside response to the infamous videotape. It is indeed offensive and ridiculous to invoke such imagery, which is exactly my point. Nathan Lewin, the attorney for AgriProcessors/Rubashkin, publicly compared PETA to the Nazis on Zev Brenner’s TalkLine radio show. You knew that, right?

Second, I believe that I’ve investigated the facts of the situation quite well given the level of my concern over this issue. My mind has been open (and will be, unlike some) to all information; sadly, Agriprocessors and the OU have mostly delivered dogma rather than facts. They state there were no problems, but they’ve “improved” some things anyway. Oh yeah. I suggest you might wish to use (http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/kosher_meat_scandal/index.html) as a good online index to references in this matter.

Third, I too want quality meat. I was referring to Dr. Grandin’s published findings regarding the improved quality of meat when the animals are not distressed prior to slaughter. Again, for your reference, you might wish to check out (http://www.grandin.com/meat/meat.html).

Now, on a more positive note, here’s some beef that certainly looks interesting given that it’s both slaughtered “ethically” and appears that the animals are well-cared for and fed a good natural diet (http://www.texaskosherbeef.com).

Cheers,

-Nathan

Nathan:
texaskosherbeef.com now only sells wholesale with a minimum 150 lb. purchase. I had an e-mail from Yaakov the owner two days ago that confirms this, Their website is out of date.

Jon– any plans to buy a dedicated freezer and order up 150 lb. of beef?

Interesting thought, but my wife already thinks I’m a little goofy about this on-line kashrut thing. Bummer.

How about a kosherblog group purchase? I’m in New Haven, CT, and would be willing to drive to the Boston area to pickup my share. If I’m going to kvetch about Rabashkin’s, I had better be willing to work toward the alternatives.

Cheers,

-Nathan

Might work for you folks and Yaakov sounded very friendly. The drive from Kentucky to Boston for meat seems a bit of a stretch for me.