So, say I want to serve warm rice at lunch on Shabbat. How do I do it without a) having chewy, dried-out rice or b) mushy, formless rice? Suggestions most welcome.
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9 comments
2 September 2004
C from PA
+0
I just bought an Oster rice cooker which claims it will keep rice warm for 12 hours. How about a rice cooker on a timer?
2 September 2004
Craig Winchell
+0
BS"DStick it on a blech to warm. One can warm food which is dry. Dry is defined as having been drained of water. Even something like baked chicken, having had the water drained from it, can be heated up on the blech. In other words, "dry" does not mean completely dry. Therefore, rice easily qualifies.
A rice cooker on a timer (to start cooking after candle lighting, I assume) would be a problem. If I recall my hilchos cholent, food to be cooked in such a manner should be at least halfway cooked before Shabbos begins.
7 September 2004
Joshua Hosseinof
+0
I think the question on how to have decent rice for shabbat lunch is how you are cooking it in the first place. It took a few years for my ashkenazi wife to learn how to make proper persian rice - that is, rice that is not sticky or mushy like you get in chinese restaurants for example. Persians use almost exclusively basmati rice, and the rice is boiled then steamed. One good persian rice recipe is at:http://www.recipezaar.com/r... One of the tricks involved in preparing the rice that is not mentioned in the recipe link above is that you need to rinse the rice first in cold water.With regards to reheating it for shabbat lunch, just don’t put it on the blech until an hour or so before lunch.
7 September 2004
Dude
+0
Wouldnt putting it on the blech be a problem of Mechzi KeMevashel? You would need Kedeira Al Gabei Kedeira. (Though I have heard that Rav Scheinberg is meikel…Dont trust me on this, check for yourself…)
8 September 2004
beerhound
+0
Re using a blech: Although one of the things a blech accomplishes is that it is not "mechzi kemevashel" (literally "appearing as cooking"), I think that you must also avoid putting the food to be reheated directly over the flame, but rather place it off to the side, which will further remove it from the appearance of cooking.[See the Mishna Beruran 318:92, who cites the Rosh, who says that even when placing a pot neat a fire and not on top of one, it must still keep a certain distance in order to change from the norm.][For an even more involved study of this topic, start with the Shulchan Oruch, Orach Chayim, 318:15, 16. In a nutshell, the Mechaber states that one may reheat fully cooked dry food near a fire on shabbos, even if the spot used is hot to the degree of "yad soledes bo" (literally "the hand is burned by it," which is the degree at which cooking occurs according to halacha). The Rama adds that this applies even to cold dry food as well as warm liquid food. (How warm? The Shulchan Aruch Harav 318:9, and Iggros Moshe, Orach Chayim, vol. 4, 74-2, write that this is where it is still warm enough to be served as a warm food, e.g. chicken soup).The Ran and the Rashba (as quoted by the Maggid Mishne, Rambam Hilchos Shabbos 22:4) seem to be the Mechaber's sources for this halacha, but note that in the Beis Yoseph he points out that although they allowed even cold liquid foods to be reheated in this manner, we hold that only dry, cooked food may be reheated. This is because we hold that upon reheating a liquid there can be "bishul acher bishul" (literally "cooking after cooking"), that is a second instance of the prohibited act of cooking, even after the food had been cooked once. This is as opposed to most solid foods, which can only be considered to have been cooked once (ein bishulk acher bishul, or "no cooking after cooking"); instances of reheating a solid food would not be considered cooking.] So consult your halachic authority, but I think that the bottom line is that one may take fully cooked rice from the fridge and put on a part of a blech that is not directly over a flame, even if that part of the blech is "yad soledes bo". In addition, you may put such the rice on top of a pot that is already on the fire, or on top of an urn, or a crockpot, as none of these are "mechzi kemevashel". See, e.g., Orach Chayim 318:17 (holding that the rules for heating food on top of an urn are like those for heating food near a fire).
13 September 2004
CT Kosher Ben Noach
+0
"If I recall my hilchos cholent, food to be cooked in such a manner should be at least halfway cooked before Shabbos begins."A rabbi - A Chabad (i.e. doesn’t even trust his *own* kashus) rabbi, no less - told me and showed me that one can start the cholent hotpot just before Shabbos if you place a large piece of meat on the top blocking any reasonable possibility of stirring the mixture during Shabbos. Who am I to question one of the Rebbe’s (z”t) Army?We’ve cooked rice in our Sephardic-meets-Ashkenazi cholent (eggs, cumin/cinnamon/garlic/ginger, potatoes *and* sweet potatoes - now everyone at the table is happy) by wrapping it in cheesecloth. The texture was certainly more "wet" than we would normally cook the rice, but it was oh-so-good in the context of the stew.
Your Chabad Rabbi might be relying on the following from http://www.koltorah.org/rav...The Gemara (Shabbat 18b) and Shulchan Aruch (253:1) permit Shehiya if there is some raw meat placed in the pot immediately before Shabbat. The reasoning for this leniency is that the concern for stirring the coals is not relevant if there is some raw meat added to the food. This is because the food will not be ready for the Friday night meal no matter how much the food is stirred since it takes a very long time for the food to cook. Moreover, the food will be ready for the Shabbat afternoon meal even if the food will not be stirred. The Mishna Berura mentions no objection to following this rule. Similarly, the Aruch Hashulchan (253:8-9) notes this practice and does not express any reservations about relying on this rule.Nevertheless, Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin (Kitvei Harav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin 2:19) ruled emphatically that this should not be relied upon in the modern era. Among his concerns were that modern ovens are much more efficient compared to those used in pre-modern times. Rav Henkin notes that raw meat cooks relatively quickly in modern ovens. Hence, he argues that the concern that one may come to stir the coals (or adjust the flame) is relevant today even if raw meat has been added to a dish. Recall that Rav Henkin arrived in America in the early twentieth century and lived a generation after the Mishna Berura and Aruch Hashulchan were written.Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik (cited by Rav Hershel Schachter, Nefesh Harav pp. 156-157) agrees with this ruling of Rav Henkin. Rav Moshe Feinstein (cited by Rav Shimon Eider, Halachos of Shabbos p. 336, note 783), however, believes that we still may rely on the Kedeira Chaita rule even when using a modern oven. We should note that some have suggested that the Kedeira Chaita rule may have reemerged with the advent of the crockpot. Since crockpots cook so slowly, the concern that one may come to adjust them might not be relevant. One should consult with his Rav about this issue.
13 September 2004
mytwocents
+0
I put cooked rice in a ziplock bag on Friday, then on Shabbos I put the ziplock bag on the blech to the side (or put it on a blech over water that is over flame/heat source). It takes just a few minutes for the rice to heat up nicely, with no mushiness.
I just bought an Oster rice cooker which claims it will keep rice warm for 12 hours. How about a rice cooker on a timer?
BS"DStick it on a blech to warm. One can warm food which is dry. Dry is defined as having been drained of water. Even something like baked chicken, having had the water drained from it, can be heated up on the blech. In other words, "dry" does not mean completely dry. Therefore, rice easily qualifies.
A rice cooker on a timer (to start cooking after candle lighting, I assume) would be a problem. If I recall my hilchos cholent, food to be cooked in such a manner should be at least halfway cooked before Shabbos begins.
I think the question on how to have decent rice for shabbat lunch is how you are cooking it in the first place. It took a few years for my ashkenazi wife to learn how to make proper persian rice - that is, rice that is not sticky or mushy like you get in chinese restaurants for example. Persians use almost exclusively basmati rice, and the rice is boiled then steamed. One good persian rice recipe is at:http://www.recipezaar.com/r... One of the tricks involved in preparing the rice that is not mentioned in the recipe link above is that you need to rinse the rice first in cold water.With regards to reheating it for shabbat lunch, just don’t put it on the blech until an hour or so before lunch.
Wouldnt putting it on the blech be a problem of Mechzi KeMevashel? You would need Kedeira Al Gabei Kedeira. (Though I have heard that Rav Scheinberg is meikel…Dont trust me on this, check for yourself…)
Re using a blech: Although one of the things a blech accomplishes is that it is not "mechzi kemevashel" (literally "appearing as cooking"), I think that you must also avoid putting the food to be reheated directly over the flame, but rather place it off to the side, which will further remove it from the appearance of cooking.[See the Mishna Beruran 318:92, who cites the Rosh, who says that even when placing a pot neat a fire and not on top of one, it must still keep a certain distance in order to change from the norm.][For an even more involved study of this topic, start with the Shulchan Oruch, Orach Chayim, 318:15, 16. In a nutshell, the Mechaber states that one may reheat fully cooked dry food near a fire on shabbos, even if the spot used is hot to the degree of "yad soledes bo" (literally "the hand is burned by it," which is the degree at which cooking occurs according to halacha). The Rama adds that this applies even to cold dry food as well as warm liquid food. (How warm? The Shulchan Aruch Harav 318:9, and Iggros Moshe, Orach Chayim, vol. 4, 74-2, write that this is where it is still warm enough to be served as a warm food, e.g. chicken soup).The Ran and the Rashba (as quoted by the Maggid Mishne, Rambam Hilchos Shabbos 22:4) seem to be the Mechaber's sources for this halacha, but note that in the Beis Yoseph he points out that although they allowed even cold liquid foods to be reheated in this manner, we hold that only dry, cooked food may be reheated. This is because we hold that upon reheating a liquid there can be "bishul acher bishul" (literally "cooking after cooking"), that is a second instance of the prohibited act of cooking, even after the food had been cooked once. This is as opposed to most solid foods, which can only be considered to have been cooked once (ein bishulk acher bishul, or "no cooking after cooking"); instances of reheating a solid food would not be considered cooking.] So consult your halachic authority, but I think that the bottom line is that one may take fully cooked rice from the fridge and put on a part of a blech that is not directly over a flame, even if that part of the blech is "yad soledes bo". In addition, you may put such the rice on top of a pot that is already on the fire, or on top of an urn, or a crockpot, as none of these are "mechzi kemevashel". See, e.g., Orach Chayim 318:17 (holding that the rules for heating food on top of an urn are like those for heating food near a fire).
"If I recall my hilchos cholent, food to be cooked in such a manner should be at least halfway cooked before Shabbos begins."A rabbi - A Chabad (i.e. doesn’t even trust his *own* kashus) rabbi, no less - told me and showed me that one can start the cholent hotpot just before Shabbos if you place a large piece of meat on the top blocking any reasonable possibility of stirring the mixture during Shabbos. Who am I to question one of the Rebbe’s (z”t) Army?We’ve cooked rice in our Sephardic-meets-Ashkenazi cholent (eggs, cumin/cinnamon/garlic/ginger, potatoes *and* sweet potatoes - now everyone at the table is happy) by wrapping it in cheesecloth. The texture was certainly more "wet" than we would normally cook the rice, but it was oh-so-good in the context of the stew.
Your Chabad Rabbi might be relying on the following from http://www.koltorah.org/rav...The Gemara (Shabbat 18b) and Shulchan Aruch (253:1) permit Shehiya if there is some raw meat placed in the pot immediately before Shabbat. The reasoning for this leniency is that the concern for stirring the coals is not relevant if there is some raw meat added to the food. This is because the food will not be ready for the Friday night meal no matter how much the food is stirred since it takes a very long time for the food to cook. Moreover, the food will be ready for the Shabbat afternoon meal even if the food will not be stirred. The Mishna Berura mentions no objection to following this rule. Similarly, the Aruch Hashulchan (253:8-9) notes this practice and does not express any reservations about relying on this rule.Nevertheless, Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin (Kitvei Harav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin 2:19) ruled emphatically that this should not be relied upon in the modern era. Among his concerns were that modern ovens are much more efficient compared to those used in pre-modern times. Rav Henkin notes that raw meat cooks relatively quickly in modern ovens. Hence, he argues that the concern that one may come to stir the coals (or adjust the flame) is relevant today even if raw meat has been added to a dish. Recall that Rav Henkin arrived in America in the early twentieth century and lived a generation after the Mishna Berura and Aruch Hashulchan were written.Rav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik (cited by Rav Hershel Schachter, Nefesh Harav pp. 156-157) agrees with this ruling of Rav Henkin. Rav Moshe Feinstein (cited by Rav Shimon Eider, Halachos of Shabbos p. 336, note 783), however, believes that we still may rely on the Kedeira Chaita rule even when using a modern oven. We should note that some have suggested that the Kedeira Chaita rule may have reemerged with the advent of the crockpot. Since crockpots cook so slowly, the concern that one may come to adjust them might not be relevant. One should consult with his Rav about this issue.
I put cooked rice in a ziplock bag on Friday, then on Shabbos I put the ziplock bag on the blech to the side (or put it on a blech over water that is over flame/heat source). It takes just a few minutes for the rice to heat up nicely, with no mushiness.