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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Kosher Day&#8221; at Whole Foods Brighton</title>
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	<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/</link>
	<description>Finding the finer side of everyday kosher living</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Boruch Tkatch</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17785</link>
		<dc:creator>Boruch Tkatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17785</guid>
		<description>Agencies have an unwritten rule. When a company switches kosher agencies, the first question is why. The old agency is also questioned to see if there were any kosher concerns.

I have no idea about what the eida hachareidis's policies are. I would find it hard to believe that they do not use other hasgachos. That would put all their companies at a huge disadvantage in finding base products. Do you have anything to back you up on that claim?

There is a big concern for all Israeli hasgachos though. In Israel there is no kula to not eat yoshon. Chodosh is an issur d'oraysa. Outside of Israel there is a heter (in use for generations). Since most hasgachos to not provide hasgacha for yoshon, this would preclude the use of any food that uses the five-grains from outside of Israel. That is a large portion of foods.

As for verifying an agency or person myself, that is something i cannot do. For starters, i do not know Yoreh Deah myself well enough to verify that someone else knows it. And all the psak halachos regarding food production today are plenty, and many complex issues as well. There is so much involved in kashrus it would be impossible to do without an agency with years of knowledge in the field.

I have a question too.  This person who prays 3 times a day, wear tzzizit daily, wear a head covering all the time, and is fully observant of kashrut, would you lend him money if you did not know him yourself? Would you lend him as much as you would lend a good friend whom you trust?

Most people would not. And for good reason. Money is a big problem when it comes to trust, as it is tempting for even an observant person. It is tempting for even a talmid chochom. Ki hashoachad y'aver enei chachamim vesalef divrei tzaddikim. Therefore, we need more than just a chezkas kashrus when money is involved; we need someone to vouch for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agencies have an unwritten rule. When a company switches kosher agencies, the first question is why. The old agency is also questioned to see if there were any kosher concerns.</p>
<p>I have no idea about what the eida hachareidis&#8217;s policies are. I would find it hard to believe that they do not use other hasgachos. That would put all their companies at a huge disadvantage in finding base products. Do you have anything to back you up on that claim?</p>
<p>There is a big concern for all Israeli hasgachos though. In Israel there is no kula to not eat yoshon. Chodosh is an issur d&#8217;oraysa. Outside of Israel there is a heter (in use for generations). Since most hasgachos to not provide hasgacha for yoshon, this would preclude the use of any food that uses the five-grains from outside of Israel. That is a large portion of foods.</p>
<p>As for verifying an agency or person myself, that is something i cannot do. For starters, i do not know Yoreh Deah myself well enough to verify that someone else knows it. And all the psak halachos regarding food production today are plenty, and many complex issues as well. There is so much involved in kashrus it would be impossible to do without an agency with years of knowledge in the field.</p>
<p>I have a question too.  This person who prays 3 times a day, wear tzzizit daily, wear a head covering all the time, and is fully observant of kashrut, would you lend him money if you did not know him yourself? Would you lend him as much as you would lend a good friend whom you trust?</p>
<p>Most people would not. And for good reason. Money is a big problem when it comes to trust, as it is tempting for even an observant person. It is tempting for even a talmid chochom. Ki hashoachad y&#8217;aver enei chachamim vesalef divrei tzaddikim. Therefore, we need more than just a chezkas kashrus when money is involved; we need someone to vouch for him.</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe Horowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17780</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe Horowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17780</guid>
		<description>There still a lack of trust between the "4" major agencies. When one throws a hashgacha away the other one is there to offer them a hashgacha almost immediately &#38; things are worked out. There is still not a total trust between all the agencies considering all of the alerts that are posted on the net with notices of mislabeling by the same companies associated withe the same agencues.  This is due to the lack of supervision in these plants.  There is in many cases an exchange of personnel between these agencies as well that is how they get to know each other as well. 

As easy as it for you to throw a stone at someone as you are sinless, you could as easily do some research on your own instead of asking others to perform it for you considering you use the name "kosher man."  Does this "kosher man" pray 3 times a day, wear tzzizit daily, wear a head covering all the time, fully observant of kashrut &#38; not going out &#38; having a salad in an establishment that is not under supervision?

Take for example the Eida HaCharedit of Jerusalem. They would not now and have never trusted not even one of American hashgachas; does that tell you anything? They know their work better than any American hashgacha, they charge but they are trustworthy more so than any American hashgacha.  They laugh at all of the American hashgachas as they know they are all a BIG joke. You pull a schtik with the Eida &#38; they pull their hashgacha big money is lost by the company.  The American hashgacha groups come to Israel &#38; do nothing absolutely ZERO &#38; they charge for doing nothing but yet they tell you that they are doing something. They stick their symbols on products that the Eida is attending too and they lie to all of you and you believe it and swallow it hook, line and sinker as if it were truth for it is the Eida who is watching the store. Think about it the next time you pick up an Israeli product &#38; you see the Eida HaCharedit where it states, 'only for use during the year.' then turn the can to the other panel &#38; you will see an American symbol with a P for Passover. Why doesn't the Eida consider this same product appropriate for Passover use all year round?  The answer is, the Eida sees first hand what is going in the plant during the year as their people are there &#38; the American hashgacha does not as it does not enough manpower. You are continually being fooled by all the hype of the American hashgachas. There is no clique here but pure honesty not like those trying to be holier than thou.
It is all very interesting how we asked HaShem on Rosh HaShana for forgiveness for haughtiness &#38; people are still at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There still a lack of trust between the &#8220;4&#8243; major agencies. When one throws a hashgacha away the other one is there to offer them a hashgacha almost immediately &amp; things are worked out. There is still not a total trust between all the agencies considering all of the alerts that are posted on the net with notices of mislabeling by the same companies associated withe the same agencues.  This is due to the lack of supervision in these plants.  There is in many cases an exchange of personnel between these agencies as well that is how they get to know each other as well. </p>
<p>As easy as it for you to throw a stone at someone as you are sinless, you could as easily do some research on your own instead of asking others to perform it for you considering you use the name &#8220;kosher man.&#8221;  Does this &#8220;kosher man&#8221; pray 3 times a day, wear tzzizit daily, wear a head covering all the time, fully observant of kashrut &amp; not going out &amp; having a salad in an establishment that is not under supervision?</p>
<p>Take for example the Eida HaCharedit of Jerusalem. They would not now and have never trusted not even one of American hashgachas; does that tell you anything? They know their work better than any American hashgacha, they charge but they are trustworthy more so than any American hashgacha.  They laugh at all of the American hashgachas as they know they are all a BIG joke. You pull a schtik with the Eida &amp; they pull their hashgacha big money is lost by the company.  The American hashgacha groups come to Israel &amp; do nothing absolutely ZERO &amp; they charge for doing nothing but yet they tell you that they are doing something. They stick their symbols on products that the Eida is attending too and they lie to all of you and you believe it and swallow it hook, line and sinker as if it were truth for it is the Eida who is watching the store. Think about it the next time you pick up an Israeli product &amp; you see the Eida HaCharedit where it states, &#8216;only for use during the year.&#8217; then turn the can to the other panel &amp; you will see an American symbol with a P for Passover. Why doesn&#8217;t the Eida consider this same product appropriate for Passover use all year round?  The answer is, the Eida sees first hand what is going in the plant during the year as their people are there &amp; the American hashgacha does not as it does not enough manpower. You are continually being fooled by all the hype of the American hashgachas. There is no clique here but pure honesty not like those trying to be holier than thou.<br />
It is all very interesting how we asked HaShem on Rosh HaShana for forgiveness for haughtiness &amp; people are still at it.</p>
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		<title>By: Boruch Tkatch</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17754</link>
		<dc:creator>Boruch Tkatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 15:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17754</guid>
		<description>Kashrus is a fact. Something either is kosher or it is not. As we have no kosher-meters we have to find out what went into a product.  To do this on a mass scale requires trust.

There are two ways to work with trust. Trust everyone unless we know they lie. Or trust noone unless we know they tell the truth. Being money is involved, there is incentive to lie, and the former is not a viable option. 

When one agency trusts another, they are trusted because they believe: they tell the truth; their standards are on par or more stringent than their own; and they only use other people or agencies with the same rules.

In general, if an organization is not used, it is not because we believe they are faulty, rather because noone can vouch for them. And that is something a phonecall cannot rectify.

For a similar system, look at Domain names on the Internet. Or newsgroups. They are a clique and it's even harder to get into those.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kashrus is a fact. Something either is kosher or it is not. As we have no kosher-meters we have to find out what went into a product.  To do this on a mass scale requires trust.</p>
<p>There are two ways to work with trust. Trust everyone unless we know they lie. Or trust noone unless we know they tell the truth. Being money is involved, there is incentive to lie, and the former is not a viable option. </p>
<p>When one agency trusts another, they are trusted because they believe: they tell the truth; their standards are on par or more stringent than their own; and they only use other people or agencies with the same rules.</p>
<p>In general, if an organization is not used, it is not because we believe they are faulty, rather because noone can vouch for them. And that is something a phonecall cannot rectify.</p>
<p>For a similar system, look at Domain names on the Internet. Or newsgroups. They are a clique and it&#8217;s even harder to get into those.</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe Horowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17753</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe Horowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 15:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-17753</guid>
		<description>Is there something specific that bothers you about Rabbi Silver or the agency?  In the industry? You mean those "4" organizations that would like to gobble up all of the smaller organizations; right?  You depended on them for the reliability of your "holy", "trustworthy,"  "specially blessed," Rubashkin "Aarons" meat. Tell me honestly that you didn't eat it.  How about the ? glatt kosher trief out of Monsey?  Where were you then to stop the flow of non-kosher meat?  Try hard to remember it is after Rosh HaShana and you are still at it looking to hurt someone? Call the SSK group if you are man enough &#38; not hiding behind a screen name.  Lashon HaRa kills and if you continue it will  detrimentally effect you or doesn't it matter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there something specific that bothers you about Rabbi Silver or the agency?  In the industry? You mean those &#8220;4&#8243; organizations that would like to gobble up all of the smaller organizations; right?  You depended on them for the reliability of your &#8220;holy&#8221;, &#8220;trustworthy,&#8221;  &#8220;specially blessed,&#8221; Rubashkin &#8220;Aarons&#8221; meat. Tell me honestly that you didn&#8217;t eat it.  How about the ? glatt kosher trief out of Monsey?  Where were you then to stop the flow of non-kosher meat?  Try hard to remember it is after Rosh HaShana and you are still at it looking to hurt someone? Call the SSK group if you are man enough &amp; not hiding behind a screen name.  Lashon HaRa kills and if you continue it will  detrimentally effect you or doesn&#8217;t it matter?</p>
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		<title>By: kosher man</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-11120</link>
		<dc:creator>kosher man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 22:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-11120</guid>
		<description>In the industry SSK is a BIg nono no one will say why and there is no one who is identifiable in the organization except the owner Rabbi ALan Ira Silver MD I think it needs some research if anyone knows a local rabbi who supervises for SSK or endorses SSK POST PLEASE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the industry SSK is a BIg nono no one will say why and there is no one who is identifiable in the organization except the owner Rabbi ALan Ira Silver MD I think it needs some research if anyone knows a local rabbi who supervises for SSK or endorses SSK POST PLEASE</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe Horowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe Horowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-911</guid>
		<description>The Shield Star-K is quite legitamite. The group is called Kosher Technical Konsultants &#38; they are very thorough with their research of a product or service before it is approved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Shield Star-K is quite legitamite. The group is called Kosher Technical Konsultants &amp; they are very thorough with their research of a product or service before it is approved.</p>
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		<title>By: Elise Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>Elise Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-910</guid>
		<description>I asked once and I got a &#34;no&#34;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked once and I got a &quot;no&quot;.</p>
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		<title>By: meredith</title>
		<link>http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-909</link>
		<dc:creator>meredith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/08/31/kosher_day_at_whole_foods_brighton/#comment-909</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know whether the Shield-Star-K is legit?  A friend and I came across it recently, on a flavored milk beverage.  (It was earlier this summer, so I don't remember specifics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know whether the Shield-Star-K is legit?  A friend and I came across it recently, on a flavored milk beverage.  (It was earlier this summer, so I don&#8217;t remember specifics.</p>
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